Don't start Sonos Control on power up

The entertainment system in my living room includes a television, a PS4 pro, a Wii U, a computer, and DIRECTV. Everything goes through my Denon AVR-X3100W. I have speakers connected for the system to work as 5.1. I also have a Sonos Connect that receives its stereo-only line input from the AVR's secondary output (Zone 2). My previous setup turned on the AVR and left Zone 2 off. This meant that all speakers were active in the living room and Sonos living room line-in was not immediately available in other rooms. If I want to hear the living room line-in in another room, I explicitly turn on Zone 2, switching the output in the living room as well. (This ensures that the audio in the living room and kitchen match each other.)

When the NEEO turns on the AVR, it starts in SURROUND mode, with all speakers available, but turns Zone 2 ON. It doesn't matter which input I've selected. When I'm in the living room, I want the default to be as it was before--with surround output. I have to go to the AVR and turn Zone 2 OFF to listen to surround audio. I don't want the power-up sequence for the AVR to include turning on Zone 2. I have not seen a step I can edit to make that change.

I'd also like a control on the NEEO remote so I can explicitly control zone output selection, but don't see a widget or button for the AVR to control Zone 2.

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  • Valerie Griffin It can be, that the current used IR Driver for your AVR is not handling the Zone differences properbly, therefor i will pull in Andy as he is responsible for changind devices in the NEEO Database. He normally replys within 24-48 swiss business hours.

  • Valerie Griffin

    Many thanks for your feedback! We had this issue already with another Denon receiver. We'll correct this ASAP.

  • Valerie Griffin

    We have just corrected this! The new data appears around 1PM CET. Please update your device. Thanks!

  • I just asked it about a firmware update and it said there isn't one. It says the current version is 0.50.6-20180424-481315c-0523-151625. It did not start correctly a few hours ago or just now. I poked at it a little more. I looked at devices and saw that the AV Receiver had been updated. I updated that and the startup works now. That update should be added to the overall firmware update process. It may be that device updates don't all get checked when firmware updates are checked. We certainly don't need updates every time any firmware is updated, but we should get updates to "our" firmware.

    When I had looked at it before, I could make the AV Receiver visible. I want it to remember that the device is visible and to let me quickly get to it while one of my input devices is active. That's where I saw that Zone 2 commands might exist, and seemed to be missing. Now, all I see is a list of possible inputs. The remote-control commands are missing. 

    I really want to be able to quickly switch between the main zone and zone 2 output. That feature is very important to me as it will let me listen to my living room media via Sonos when I'm in another room or listen to surround when I'm in my living room. I would also like to change the sound mode.

    I do not see any way to actually customize the slides from the SLIDES menu for the AV Receiver. That screen functions the same way on Android and iOS. It includes two lines, one labeled "Inputs" and the other labeled "Shortcuts". In each case, the label is followed immediately by two buttons, labeled "App" and "Remote". There is also a right-justified on/off switch. The switch functions as a switch, but nothing happens. Pressing the buttons does nothing. There's an area that looks like it's intended to select and reorder something, but it doesn't do anything useful.

    I do appreciate that power on works the way I want it to but there's more work to to on the Denon I've got....

    • Valerie Griffin I will pull in Jeff and Ingrid maybe they can explain you a little more from the design / inside sight of NEEO and how it was considered to work.

      But, for the Update question, it totally make no sense to implement the driver updates to the firmware updates, as these are two seperated tasks. A Request to announce and higlight the Device updates are allready filed at the neeo backlog, but this has no high priority, as it is not neccessary for each person to have the newest version of a driver if he not need the additional tasks.

      For your Scenarion, you should add the Output selection on your Sonos Recipe as a shortcut, so you are able to select the two outputs with just one click. Normally a AVR Recipe is hidden, because all it does is to display all possible IR Codes on the Remotes display and let a user check or choose one of them. But NEEO is not indendet to be used this way, as this is not a realy smart was, isn't it?

      Normally you start a recipe to hear music and then decide where you like to hear it. If you would like to change that, you need a shortcut that does this task, if you would like to have two seperate recipes for the situations you should programm so.

    • Valerie Griffin You are updating a device, not the firmware.  In the NEEO app click the 3 bars in upper right hand corner.  Select Devices, then your AVR. On the pop up menu select check for updates.

    • Dave H If you had bothered reading everything, you would have noticed that I did update the device. When I had received the initial response, I did not know how to "update the device" and I complained that they should have been more clear about that, and that they should make it more visible that we may have devices to update. I'm very well-practiced at figuring out how to do things and did not find your response at all helpful. If, on the other hand you were telling me how to create the shortcuts I need to make the AV Receiver work the way I want it to, that would be useful.

    • Valerie Griffin why are you reacting so offensive against Dave H ? The guy is trying to help you out in his spare time, he doesn’t have to.

      anyway using the app start the recipe you want to add shortcuts to. Then top right hamburger menu, edit shortcuts. You can add buttons and or widgets there.

    • Niels de Klerk There still isn't anything obvious to toggle sound to zone 2. There is something that claims to turn it off, but nothing obvious to turn it on. I'll just start a new post with that issue. At least it starts in the correct mode now.

      I had gotten that far, but there's no way you could have known that from my posts.

      I do not like people who jump in to be "helpful" without bothering to find out whether or not their answer or action is really useful. If he had bothered to read the entire post to which he was "responding", he would have seen that I had, in fact figured out fairly quickly that "device" was specific tech jargon in the initial context. I kept the stream of consciousness in my post to illustrate my thought process upon encountering the language used in the post to me. (It's important for techies to write for naive users, even if it means writing it out as "device definition, under DEVICES" instead of just "device" which can refer to a class of physical objects that includes things like the NEEO itself. It's also one of the hardest things to do. Writing the code is much easier.) He wouldn't have wasted his time writing a post that showed he hadn't actually read what he was responding to. I wasted my time looking at a posting that didn't tell me anything useful, interrupting something I was in the middle of.

    • Valerie Griffin text can easily be misinterpreted, just saying. I to haven't read all the posts and sometimes i think i am helping out but missing totally what someone is needing help with. these things happen.

      If you can't find the right command to switch zone2 on then it may be missing. I'll tag Andy the NEEO driver wizard. 

    • Valerie Griffin Good luck with your set up.

  • I have no idea how to create a recipe or shortcut for the AV receiver. Please note my description of the menu I see when I look at recipes for the AV Receiver. When I looked before reporting the initial problem, I did see the remote codes listed, except for the codes to manage zone 2. I cannot find them now.

    I've already modified the power-off for DIRECTV to not power off that device. (If it's powered off, the buffer fill stops. This means that turning it on does not allow me to go backwards in the buffer or to pause, turn the system off, and have it restored when I power back on.) So, I'm already familiar with recipe updates.

    I mentioned the need to process updates in a more user-friendly way because performing the obvious "update" operation in response to your communication didn't work. The "upgrade" function on the remote does not support those updates. I just stepped through my TV, AV Receiver, DIRECTV, Wii-U, and PlayStation 4. The TV and DIRECTV both updated. The AV Receiver and Wii-U were up to date. The PlayStation 4 doesn't have an update option. I will now add checking for driver updates to periodic maintenance, especially while the device is relatively new. Hiding driver updates from the users really isn't good support.

  • Also, I don't have a Sonos recipe. Because most of my Sonos actions are while I'm out of the living room, I just use my phone instead of using the NEEO (which doesn't actually know about the Sonos). The Sonos system is fed from my living room whenever I send the AV output to Zone 2 instead of to the primary zone. I need AV Receiver recipes and shortcuts to select "Sound mode" and zone output.

      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 4 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Valerie Griffin 

      I think I know of a way to achieve your goal.

      - Make sure both the Main Zone and the Zone 2 device is added to NEEO.
      - Next would be the wiring setup. You may want to re-wire all devices (Settings menu -> Devices -> Click on any device you want to re-wire -> Click on re-wire). Your devices may be already wired correctly and the following steps are not necessary.
      - Wire all device that are connected to the main zone to the main zone device. 
      - Wire all devices connected to the 2nd zone to the ZONE 2 device.

      Let me know if you need any help with the wiring setup

      Now, you can simply start a Main zone recipe and the main zone is powered on, inputs are switched correctly, all necessary devices (that are part of the recipe) will also power on. If you want to have the zone 2 device, simply start a recipe where the devices are wired to the 2nd zone. If correctly setup, all inputs are switched correctly, all devices (that are part of the recipe) are turned on and the Zone 2 is powered on.

      Still, zone 2 would not turn off if a zone 1 recipe is started and in the opposite. You can add a power off step to a recipe at the beginning of a recipe. E.g. add the POWER OFF command from the zone 2 device to a recipe with devices connected to zone 1.

      Also, that Sonos is not controlled via NEEO makes the automation a bit harder. You would not have a device to connect to zone 2, like explained above. This way you also miss a recipe for zone 2. Just un-hiding an AVR recipe is not recommended. As you mentioned, only the inputs and the shortcut screen is offered anyway. The idea is to control a device with NEEO that is connected via Zone 2 - all the rest is done in the background.

      Anyway, if you just need a button that executes the zone 2 switch, there are two possibilities:

      1. Add to any recipe shortcut screen you like a command.

      - Navigate to any shortcut screen.
      - Click on the hamburger menu in the upper right corner.
      - Click on "Edit shortcuts".
      - Click on "Add a shortcut".
      - If you need power on or off from Zone 2, click on the Zone 2 device.
      - Add POWER ON or POWER OFF.
      -> If you need the power commands form the main zone, click on the main zone device and add the power commands from this list.

      2. You can create a manual recipe. This will not show up in the "Now active" bar. But you can execute a row of commands if you like. E.g. POWER OFF to main zone -> POWER ON to ZONE 2 -> WAIT 2 seconds -> INPUT X to ZONE 2. Or whatever macro you would like to execute.

      - Navigate to the settings menu in the NEEO app.
      - Click on "Recipes".
      - Click on "Next".
      - Click on the room where you want to create the recipe.
      - Click on "Create new recipe".
      - Click on "Icon is pressed..." and "Next".
      - Click on "Add step" and "Send command to device" and "Next".
      - No in the same way as with shortcuts, choose the command you want to send.
      - Repeat this step with every command you like to add to the recipe.

      I hope this helps!

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