PS4, HDAnywhere mHub 4K431 & NEEO Brain

I would like some guidance regarding the recent Full Sony PlayStation 4 Support notice here in relation to my setup.

It is not possible for me to connect the PS4 to the NEEO Brain by HDMI, because the PS4 is connected as a source device to my HDAnywhere mHub 4K431 matrix (a device supported by NEEO). Four source devices (Sky Q 2TB box, Sky Q Mini box, PS4 & Amazon FireTV) are housed in a rack and connected to the matrix by HDMI. The matrix is then connected to TVs in different rooms by HDMI over CAT6.

I do not have an AVR included in my setup, so connecting the PS4 to one is not an option for me.

HDAnywhere support do not recommend connecting the Brain to the mHub 4K431 matrix by HDMI. If the Brain was connected to the matrix and CEC commands were sent, the risk is that more than one device would be controlled at once.
 

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  • Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. As far as I have understood, I do not agree with the support from HDAnywhere. HDMI CEC can be imagined as a network. Once you have added your PS4 to NEEO, the commands will not be broadcasted but sent to a very specific device which has an address in your HDMI network.

    Basically, there is nothing you can break, I do recommend going ahead connecting the NEEO Brain to the HDMI Switch and then give this a try. If you see errors happening that is quickly disconnected again.

    Reply Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick Many thanks for taking the time to respond. To clarify, are you suggesting connecting the NEEO Brain to the HDMI Output shown as (7) on page 2 of the MHUB Quick Start Guide? If so, I'll give your suggestion a shot as soon as possible, and confirm the results. If it helps, the PS4 is connected to HDMI Source Input 3 (1).

      HDAnywhere support confirmed that they have two NEEO remotes, and I expect they've tested against a few if not all of the variations of their latest gen MHUB matrix. There's obviously been some degree of collaboration between your two companies, and this article suggests NEEO have at least one HDAnywhere product for testing purposes; I hope it's the MHUB4K431.

      Reply Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dillon Moulder I honestly don't know if they have already given the new CEC implementation for NEEO and the PS4 a test. When I find the time I can give this a test too, but I cannot yet tell you when this will be the case.

      Basically, you can't break anything and it shouldn't matter to which HDMI Port you connect NEEO since CEC commands should be passed through all HDMI ports.

      Reply Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick Sharing your test results would be welcomed. Proven results are always more compelling than suggested results, especially when considering the combined cost of the hardware involved. 😉

      Reply Like
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick Andy Since CEC is not routable, if you send a command from the Brain via the MHUB, if it's recognisable to more than one device, they'll all follow that command’s action.

      Another question, have you tested connecting the NEEO Brain to any of the MHUB’s IR ports by way of HDAnywhere’s optocoupler cable? I’m wondering if it might be possible to connect the NEEO IR extender to an IR port on the MHUB Receiver local to a TV to enable control of the TV using the Brain.

      Reply Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Dillon Moulder CEC is routable and packages/commands are sent to a very specific address. Each device has its own address. HDMI CEC has to be seen as a network where each device can be specifically controlled.

      I did not have a chance to test that combination yet. But I have assigned that to our test engineers. I can not really tell yo when they will find the time to test that though.

      If the support from HDAnywhere does not recomend connecting the NEEO Brain, ask them why, or ask them to test and confirm. I am NEEO support, and I say "connect it" from our perspective. We will not have the possibilty to confirm with every single device that supports CEC in this world.

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      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dillon Moulder I am getting in touch with them to clear this situation. I will let you know more as soon as I have a response.

      Reply Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick Many thanks for the update. HDAnywhere’s Customer Services stated: “Our matrix devices support CEC, but we usually recommend it is disabled as CEC cannot be routed.” Although HDAnywhere have two NEEO remotes at hand (and obviously a MHUB 4K431), I do not know if they have a PS4 to test with. As soon as you or your colleagues have the opportunity to test PS4 control with the NEEO Brain connected to the MHUB 4K431 by HDMI along with a PS4 connected to the MHUB 4K431 by HDMI, please do share your results. If it’s any help, all of my source devices are connected to the matrix by Planet Waves HDMI-E cables.

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      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick I’m pleased to hear that you’ll be contacting HDAnywhere to discuss configurations and HDMI CEC. After all, this is a good support article in the making.

      Reply Like
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick How did your discussions regarding CEC go with HDAnywhere? My understanding is that the NEEO team would be meeting with their team at CES 2018.

      Reply Like
  • Anybody intending to experiment with connecting the NEEO Brain directly to an MHUB 4K III matrix for control requires a IR Integration Dongle Type B (Green) 4K (Product Code: 1.55.911.002.1); this is manufactured by Keene and supplied by OneAV UK. I’ve not yet tested this product, but thought it would be useful to share this information now. 

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  • Chris Pinder Any suggestions here?  🤔 If you have the inside-edge on when the next firmware update will be released, please feel free to contribute to the discussion here too.

    Reply Like
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 11 mths ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dillon Moulder LOL!

      If Chris Pinder has the inside edge? Based on his post on Twitter (which NEEO reposted) I'd say he has more than the inside edge 😉

      Reply Like 1
  • James Long said:
    Based on his post on Twitter (which NEEO reposted) I'd say he has more than the inside edge

    James Long Did you notice the "firmware!?" comment from Hanno-wybren Mook in response to that tweet? 😀

    Reply Like
  • Hi Dillon Moulder & James Long ! Obviously, as soon as we heard about your situation, we flew to Switzerland to conduct face-to-face meetings with the NEEO team! 😉

    Depending on when your MHUB was manufactured, you MAY be able to use a standard 3.5mm-to-3.5mm stereo jack cable from the brain to the 'IR in' on the MHUB display receiver. Production from Nov 2017 onwards should not require the Keene 'optocoupler' dongle. Currently, my personal preference for implementing NEEO+MHUB is to have a brain in each room.

    In the future it's our ambition to create a special driver that uses our API, rather than simple IR passback. This will make it possible for a single centralised brain to hijack/leverage MHUB's IP>IR routing capabilities as a kind of i/o expander for control over all MHUB-connected sources and displays via multiple NEEO remotes and just one brain.

    My very best regards,

    Chris

    Reply Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 11 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Chris Pinder It’s very nice to see you on Planet NEEO! I hope the timing and content of your reply serves as a good practice example to the NEEO community staff. 😉

      Are you endorsing connecting the Brain directly to the MHUB by HDMI though? PS4 control through NEEO is done by HDMI CEC only, and my PS4 Pro is already connected to the MHUB as a source device.

      My MHUB 4K431 was manufactured prior to November 2017; it’s not Alexa-enabled, so it’s recently become the previous gen (still considering whether to update). I’m not sure if anybody else here on Planet NEEO is using an HDAnywhere product alongside NEEO. This topic was created 3 months ago, and there has been little engagement.

      I’m not confident enough in the NEEO product and team to purchase a second Brain yet; I’m not sure if I ever will be, as it’s all packed away in lieu of the next firmware update. Your proposed roadmap ideas sound promising though!

      All the best for your new venture with NEEO, and with your new business premises too. 

      Reply Like
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 11 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Chris Pinder With yesterday's firmware release, both PS4 and FireTV control use HDMI CEC. HDAnywhere are an advocate of hidden wires, and I'm sure you'd agree that the majority of your clients would want to preserve this. This begs the question of what is best practice for connecting the Brain to provide for control over the matrix and connected source devices. Is it (a) positioning it in the rack, and connecting it to the MHUB by HDMI, therefore preserving the hidden wires aesthetic, or (b) connecting it to a display by HDMI, therefore introducing visible wires/cables into the setup? You've suggested using more than one Brain, but this goes beyond buying a NEEO combo, and still involves introducing visible wires/cables. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

      Patrick perhaps you can contribute too since you've not followed-up on your last post to this topic during the last two months. The NEEO team have access to the product, and now NEEO are partnering with the product's manufacturer, so I really don't think it's a tall order. After all, existing HDAnwhere customers being encouraged to consider buying NEEO are bound to read this topic.

      Reply Like
    • Dillon Moulder For getting HDMI-CEC to work, it isn't required to put the Brain on a specific location. The only maximum is that CEC does only support 15 adresses, means not more then 15 devices are controlable in one network. I personaly don't know how the HDAnywhere HArdware is working in the case of HDMI-CEC, but if they fully implemented the HDMI Spec > 1.3 then it should also transport the CEC Signal over the Network and Provide the Control signals at your TV / Beamer.

      But this needs confirmation from the manufacturer i think. But searching in the current Brochure Online shows Supported HDMI2.0 and HDCP2.2, so basically it should work. It only can make Issues / Trouble, if all Destinations are also set as HDMI Adress, but this should only make an effect, when using 8x8 Setup.

      Reply Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 11 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Markus Mahr Thanks for taking an interest here, but this is not just about HDMI CEC. HDAnywhere support did not recommend connecting the Brain to the MHUB 4K431 matrix; the MHUB matrix is in a central rack. The rack, which houses all source devices, is not in the same room as any of the displays in my home. I cannot connect the Brain to an AVR in the rack, because I do not have one. I cannot connect the Brain to the PS4 Pro, the Amazon Fire TV, or any other source device, because they're already connected to the MHUB matrix to provide for distribution around my home.

      It might be an option to connect the Brain to the TV in my living room by HDMI, but then I'm introducing wires into a no wires home and do not have a spare power socket behind the TV (double socket only, with 1 x coax connection and 4 x CAT6 ethernet connections); nothing is visible but the wall-mounted TV and the SONOS Playbar beneath it, and I really don't want a Brain, its power cable and an HDMI cable dangling below it. I'd like NEEO to complement my setup and experience, not compromise it.

      Reply Like
    • Dillon Moulder I fully understand what your approach is and definitly woudn't do it different. Thats also why i was writing that the Manufacturer should explain, why it is not recommended to connect it directly to the HUB.

      Hope you will get an Reply by the manufacturer, why he don't recommend it.

      Also due to i'm interessted in all Audio Video Systems i keep an eye on such Topics, because, if i buy a Home, i would love to implement such technologys ;-)

      if you would like to put the HDMI-CEC in control in the rack, maybe such a device can help:

      https://www.amazon.com/Splitter-Powered-Amplifier-Adapter-Support/dp/B01LAILGN0/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1519305127&sr=8-9&keywords=hdmi+cec+splitter

      This is CEC enabled and you are then able to control the IR Devices from within their location.

      Reply Like 1
  • Chris Pinder said:
    Hi Dillon Moulder & James Long ! Obviously, as soon as we heard about your situation, we flew to Switzerland to conduct face-to-face meetings with the NEEO team! 😉

    Now that made me chuckle as I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have boarded a flight to see the team if you had been reading most of my other posts! I haven't gone easy on the guys in the last few months. 😉

    Unfortunately I do not have one of your products. My set up is really simple which is why it's been all the more frustrating to have the experience I have had so far. I have taken the guys up on their offer of a refund today, after much thought, and appreciate them still allowing me to continue to use NEEO moving forward too. It is a nice gesture. 

    I do hope that they improve their communications moving forward and perhaps your future collaboration with them will have a positive influence on this as Dillon Moulder suggests.

    Reply Like 1
  • Afternoon Gents, our tests are only really getting started and we will be testing extensive permutations over the coming days. But our current advice is that we recommend that the Brain is connected to the TV via HDMI in each room, mainly for CEC reporting purposes (i.e. for the on/off state of the TV "stupid/not-so-smart device" vs device that can give feedback). However, a word of warning, CEC can only get you so far in terms of TV control, a large chunk of TV brands/models DO NOT support volume control via CEC so you'll still need a Brain in the room. But this might not an issue obviously if you are using another device for audio, such as a soundbar or AVR. In some situations you will still need to rely on the IR emitters of the NEEO Brain in the room to achieve full controllability.

    In terms of controlling an MHUB-connected source device via CEC, you can do that with this Brain-in-each-room configuration. The active source device being routed by the MHUB to that TV zone will be part of the CEC network, and should be detected and controllable by that room's brain via CEC through the MHUB.

    Until we have finished writing the driver that allows for a single brain located centrally at the MHUB, this is our recommended advice. Whether or not we recommend connecting the brain via HDMI to the MHUB will become clearer later, after we have evaluated all the various connection permutations. Either way, it is my experience that some kind of IR control will also be utilised in most setups, but the good news is that the MHUB's display receiver IR emitters should be able to take care of that for NEEO, rather than a brain in every room.

    Hope that makes sense.

    Reply Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 11 mths ago
      • Reported - view

      Chris Pinder Thank you for your detailed explanation. Based on this, the NEEO stays in the box for now.

      I’ve already explained why I’m not willing to purchase a second Brain ($199 + shipping and taxes) yet, and it has little to do with incurring additional cost. Hiding the Brain behind a wall-mounted TV just doesn’t seem feasible, especially without a spare power socket being available (protruding block plugs aren’t practical either).

      Would I purchase another HDAnywhere product? Without a doubt, although I might wait to see what advances there are with HDBaseT before upgrading my matrix; I like the latest Alexa-enabled MHUB 4K431, but beyond that the specification is still near identical to the previous gen (which I own). HDAnywhere’s products are great and their support is first-rate. Hopefully your collaboration with NEEO yields similar results, as Patrick neglected to provide an update to this topic in months.

      Reply Like
  • Hi Dillon Moulder did you get the brain working with your MHUB 4K431?

    I have exactly the same MHUB setup as you and whilst the Neeo system looks great I’d only want one brain.

    Thanks,

    Nick

    Reply Like 1
  • Hi Nick Duncombe ,

    Nick Duncombe said:
    did you get the brain working with your MHUB 4K431?
    I have exactly the same MHUB setup as you and whilst the Neeo system looks great I’d only want one brain.

    Unfortunately, I did not. You might find this documentation useful: http://oneav.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/n/e/neeo_mhub_1.png

    I lost confidence in this company and product a long time ago. Incidentally, this is the first time I’ve visited Planet NEEO in a very long time and I’m not at all surprised to see that there hasn’t been a firmware update in several months, and that communication from the company is more deficient than ever. It really is a sad situation. 

    Reply Like
  • Hi Chris Pinder & James Trumper ,

    Chris Pinder said:
    Until we have finished writing the driver that allows for a single brain located centrally at the MHUB, this is our recommended advice.

    Has this driver been developed and is it available now? Would love to know. Thanks in advance.

    Reply Like
  • It has been developed and we will be demonstrating it at ISE next week. Public release shouldn't be far off.

    Reply Like 1
  • Chris Pinder is their any limitation on MHUB hardware for this driver? My MHUB4K (4x3+1) is a July 2017 model.

    Reply Like
    • I’ve developed it on that model so it should work just perfect! :-)

      it requires the latest MHUB firmware and the upcoming NEEO firmware release.

      Reply Like
  • Niels de Klerk said:
    it requires the latest MHUB firmware and the upcoming NEEO firmware release

    Thanks for sharing that information Niels de Klerk . Unfortunately, I don’t think the firmware can be updated on the MHUB4K (4x3+1) model that Nick Duncombe and I have. Ours is not Alexa-enabled, if that helps.

    Reply Like
    • Dillon Moulder have u tried the HDA app. Go to settings, access MHUB, MHUB Setup. There you will be able to update it. At least I was and I to have a 4x3+1

      Reply Like
    • Dillon Moulder I am indeed able to setup voice devices. I was under the impression that all where updatable. Chris Pinder is surely able to tell you the details of your model. (If it’s any different then mine)

      Reply Like 1
  • Niels de Klerk said:
    have u tried the HDA app. Go to settings, access MHUB, MHUB Setup. There you will be able to update it. At least I was and I to have a 4x3+1

    Niels de Klerk I don’t think you have a Gen 3 model; the HDA uControl app does not include those options for this particular model. This model does not have voice control either.

    Reply Like
    • Dillon Moulder I’m sorry to hear that. I didn’t know there where different similar models.

      Reply Like 1
  • Hi Dillon, you are a little unlucky, your model does not support the enhanced control features. These were introduced in the next version.

    Reply Like 1
  • Chris Pinder said:
    Hi Dillon, you are a little unlucky, your model does not support the enhanced control features. These were introduced in the next version.

    Thanks Chris Pinder It’s a shame, and I realised that last year when the updated HDA uControl app was mistakenly trying to find and update the firmware on my MHUB; bug reported, and fixed soon afterwards for all Gen 3 owners though. When the 2019 model is available, I might consider upgrading to it but we’ll see what my budget permits.

    Reply Like
  • Niels de Klerk said:
    I’m sorry to hear that. I didn’t know there where different similar models.

    Niels de Klerk As I’m sure you know, it’s often the case that a new model with better functionality is released soon after you’ve bought any device! Thanks for your contributions here, and it’s great that you have developed a driver solution even if Nick Duncombe and I cannot benefit from your work right now.

    Reply Like
  • The 2019 MHUB U (4x3+1) is certainly an upgrade, particularly if you want to support 18G 4K HDR input sources, such as 4K AppleTV.

    Reply Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Chris Pinder Will you still be releasing the aforementioned driver now that the NEEO remote and Brain are essentially abandonware? Will you still be marketing NEEO products alongside HDAnywhere MHUB products, as currently listed on your company’s website and supporting the ones you or your installer network have already sold? Please advise. Dillan Pattni James Trumper

      Reply Like
    • Dillon Moulder the driver is built by me and is open source, I’ll maintain it as long as I’m using it myself. I’m very happy with my MHUB and NEEO so I don’t see it being abandoned anytime soon. 

      The NEEO version that has just been released is the one you need for the driver to work.

      Reply Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 13 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Niels de Klerk Thanks for confirming that. Have you shared a demonstration video of the driver in action? If so, please provide a link as I’d be very interested to see it.

      Reply Like
    • Dillon Moulder 

      it’s early footage but shows what it does 

      MHUB driver: https://youtu.be/zFJo27nTJvs

       

      Ucontrol part:

      https://youtu.be/Xos4CRcynx4

      Reply Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 12 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Niels de Klerk Many thanks for sharing the footage of your great work. Looks promising! That said, the HDAnywhere and OneAV sites have both now been purged of any NEEO-related content. It appears the two companies are distancing themselves from NEEO in the wake of the acquisition announcement. Nick Duncombe you might’ve just dodged a bullet if you didn’t buy a NEEO product!

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      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 3 days ago
      • Reported - view

      Niels de Klerk Do you have your NEEO Brain directly connected to your MHUB? If so, how? The goal is to have the Brain located centrally in a rack, and to achieve control over the PS4 and FireTV housed in the rack (and connected to the MHUB) using the NEEO remote. I’m interested to know whether this can finally be achieved with your new driver and the MHUB firmware update. Thanks in advance.

      Reply Like
    • Dillon Moulder I have our AVR and game consoles set up in our livingroom. Only the streaming boxes are central. My driver supports uncontroll so HDA can control these using my driver.

      Reply Like 1
  • Dillon Moulder said:
    Will you still be marketing NEEO products alongside HDAnywhere MHUB products, as currently listed on your company’s website?

    For anybody who’s following this discussion, the answer to that question is a resounding “No”. All NEEO-related content has since been withdrawn from the HDAnywhere website. Unfortunately, NEEO is referenced in the HDAnywhere 2019 brochure which was published and printed only a short while ago: https://view.publitas.com/hd-connectivity/hdanywhere2018/page/14-15 This indicates that, in January 2019, HDAnywhere had no knowledge of Control 4’s intention to acquire NEEO or of NEEO’s intention to sell their company to Control 4.

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