Shape the NEEO future
Today we have announced that NEEO is joining the Control4 family. Read the blog post here: the huge news NEEO has released today This is a huge change. We mentioned in the post:
We totally understand that you don’t want your NEEO to stop working. Some of you may be interested in doing more – providing support or development work for current NEEO customers. We are open to discussions if you have an interest. We can’t promise anything, yet we are open to all discussions. You have ideas in that regard? You want to be part of that future?
This thread is intended to gather your ideas.
We are here to listen.
Every thought is welcome!
In the sense of keeping this thread future-oriented, please do post general feedback to the news over here.
That announcement is very disappointing. It might be cool if control 4 caters to DIYers but they don’t. The disappointing thing is that I purchased the remote With the ideas of potentially the perfect solution to consistent interface as a diy person. You just sold your product off to a completely different market. The very few that are happy about it are already associated with control 4 or are making money in the deal. No one else. How can I get my $300 back? It’s probably been too long for the sale. I’ve been waiting for the right features to be implemented to be usable. Now it’s just straight up a waste of money for me. I couldn’t be more disappointed in NEEO.
I have no doubt that you and all the NEEO staff worked very hard to get where you are today. However without the many backers you couldn't even have started. I don't understand what so exiting about the news for us backers. Please answer two questions; 1) How on earth could you sell to probably the only company that wil not support the product you developed. 2) We are stuck with two pieces of nice hardware and software that never delivered that was promised. How are you ging to keep that promise? Your lawyers have probably told you that you can do what you did, but morally it is so very wrong!
what I think it needs:
1. the cloud servers have to go to someone who can take care of them.
2. the domains as well as all services have to be managed by someone.
3. without the change suggested by Niels de Klerk , someone must be able to add new devices and codes.
4. if opensource is not an option, i'd suggest that someone who knows the business takes over the software. why couldn't a swiss company come to an agreement with Logitech? They have the same market, but not the beautiful hardware... here a cooperation would have become the measure of all things.
The minimum you can do is make the IR learning functional. That Neeo would at least become a dumb universal remote. Maybe provide longer support for the cloud servers (they can't be so expensive)
The best case would be to open source the software, add a way to easy upload new firmwares to the brain and the remote and in the best case, continue to sell hardware (maybe with the current software) - that the open source community can grow and have a wonderfull fully open remote. I think even Control4 can benefit from the new ideas from the community...
This is all very sad, I've recommended the remote and I was hoping that sooner or later it will become a more capable remote then my harmony and not as locked in as Control 4.
Control 4 just does not cut it for many people like my self you like to tinker and often change their set-up.
I really hope you will make the software open source so that the power of the community can make this remote what it was always supposed to be.
A beautiful remote with an open and flexibel software to integrate all you wish.
Hey people what are you dreaming? Open source??? Do you know what Control4 means? I can tell you.
I used to have a c4 system in my house cost around €50k. I can't do any setting changes. Such as a scheduled front post light. I need to call my dealer many times to get hold of them to very politly to ask question. They CHARGE you for everything. Most recently is to add Spotify to the c4 control app, they came here spent 2 hours, still every time I click it the screen says I need to open a ULR link for authorization but just can't get it authorized. At the end, installer told me my solos streaming receiver does not compatible with them. €500 bills after a week. I call c4 corporate. They said sorry and I have to contact my dealer. I then called other dealers around, dealers said only the dealer installed c4 has a password can control my system. They will need to charge me €1000 ish to change a equipment so they can over ride with a new code to control my c4 to to any thing. The truth is, don't think if you invest €50k for the system and labor will get you what you want. That's just a start! You then in to a hole that need to constant ask the dealer who installed your system to pay them €200/hour labor to change any setting. I ask dealer if he can do it on his computer without coming, he said yes, for €50/hour labor. WTF! Basically they control everything, user has no control at all. Worst decision i've ever made.
Open source??? Ha!
I tell you what’s going to happen: use control4 or bust:
”Control4 will support existing NEEO customers via www.neeo.com and plans to provide an upgrade path to make it easy for users to experience Control4’s broad array of smart home solutions.”
@Patrick Please publish the documentation for the backend server so even if you cannot open-source it, we might be able to reverse-engineer it. All the content needs to be made available as well to make this useful (driver definitions, channel logos). The brain needs to get an option to specify the backend server then.
What a sad news. Understandable from a startup perspective. Probably a nice exit strategy but sad for us
It has been said already by many but opensourcing it is the only way for us to keep a realy interesting products. Now this is probably not an option since control 4 has probably acquired the full IP stack so what else? At lease create a last version allowing adding directly ir codes for commands and removing any dependencies on cloud components
Give Niels de Klerk the possibility to maintain NEEO, he is very active and a wizard in my opinion. I think he is qualified to keep all the fallen NEEO'S up and running. In the end: if the remote can control my devices after 24 months and add some new devices via Homey or IR learning it will continue to operate. It will be sad there are so many possibilities left for the remote but it would be nice if someone cotinues to work on this it would be great.
If the IR database can be maintained by the community and the firmware code is released as open source, good things can still happen
i dont understand why things are going in this direction :-( NEEO and openHAB2 were the perfect combination for my smart home, I just hope this will continue
ps. I am a developer and if the code is available why not drive it as a community project? What is the tool chain and technology used behind the scenes?
I personally do not believe in making the code Open source. it sounds fantastic but I don't see it work out. the hardware won't be sold anymore and active users will drop from this point forward. Part of the code is written in assembler, I doubt we could find someone willing to spend much time on. We know the development pace of the NEEO team, Coders by trade and a fulltime job at NEEO. this would require a shlt load of hobbyists to even the pace.
As I see it, if manufacturing stops the platform is dead. No one is really likely to take this project on - even as a hobbist or open-source activity etc. - if there's a small pool of devices, no new sales, no repair/replacement hardware coming out.
That said, if we had the following 3 features, at least the product would be pretty usable for a time:
- No cloud/online-service requirement.
- Ability to locally add new devices (ideally, the ability to export/import too, so the community can share.
- The ability to add custom icons for Favourites and Shortcuts. If there isn't enough memory for lots of Favourite icons, then simply being able to add colourised text instead of an icon would do (I recognise most channels by the colours of their acronym text)
That would make the platform viable, for a while. But with no replacement parts or units being made, and (sooner or later) the iOS and Android ceasing active development, it's only a matter of time before the entire platform is 100% unusable.
The only option I can see is to start looking for alternatives. The Harmony remotes have similar functionality, but IMO are way behind in terms of design. 😟
Basically exactly what I expected / forecast almost a week ago (The move to professional only). TBH I wouldn't care if they would just open source the community version - that would be totally fair - they don't have to sell the hardware anymore so it doesn't damage their professional business and if they are lucky the OS folks will build cool features that they can steal for their pro version.
Before we can put forward any ideas here, we would first have to know how the licenses are regulated. I suppose Control4 has purchased the software completely, so it's unlikely that it will be released as OpenSource. But without this step the discussion will be unnecessary if there is no end user support from Control4 (which makes more sense in my opinion).
I think it's brave given Swiss law is pretty clear on the subject of Civil Fraud.
Swiss law also provides for other offences which involve components of fraud, for example: • misappropriation; • unlawful use of financial assets; • maliciously causing financial loss to another; • criminal mismanagement; • exploitation of knowledge of confidential information; • bankruptcy and debt collection felonies or misdemeanours; • forgery. In the context of contracts, fraud is also sanctioned by Article 28 of the Swiss Code of Obligations (SCO). Further, fraud may be understood in a more general sense to encompass manifest abuse of a right which is prohibited by Article 2 of the Swiss Civil Code (SCivC) and can give rise, in very limited cases, to liability based on trust.
Hope Control4 put aside some money ;-)
Folks - stop trying to raise your hopes with open source solution. I'd be very surprised if they would be able to release it as open source - I'm sure they depend on components that have restrictive licensing that doesn't make that possible.
However - I could certainly see a hybrid approach where someone could create simplified firmware (containing all the restrictive licensed code) as a firmware and have an open source API to control it. But again, that all depends on licensing, what they have used and what the control4 deal will take.
But to simply say open source it is not a solution (in my mind) and you shouldn't get your hopes up for that..
Ok, first of all... yes, what a disappointment!
As I am afraid that all our pain and anger will not be heard - I would like to start some serious discussions on what could be possible to at least get something that is not completely wasted money.
Reading through the posts here I agree with most that software will potentially not be open sourced - so what could be alternatives then?
My first thoughts were going into the direction of the existing integration into OpenHAB (I think it was created by Tim Roberts) - as here at device search we have the ability to find locally available devices - a centrally managed DB from Neeo would not be necessary. With the ability to also control CEC and IR devices (e.g. via Broadlink Blackbeam) with OpenHAB you could potentially integrate these devices to OpenHAB and control it via the Neeo remote. - Off course this would require additional hardware (e.g. Raspberry and Broadlink) which is indeed not a nice solution (leaving the cababilities of the brain completely at the side - even for the few things it does today with the current software...).
Question for me would be if it might be possible to open a possibility to allow the brain to run OpenHAB directly and create native Bindings for brain's IR and CEC controllers - this way additional components might not be required and devices can be added as OpenHAB devices and locally added to configuration for neeo remote. (Nevertheless IR learning somehow has to be solved...)
Also even if the Neeo App will disappear, the brain's web UI (currently a hidden but working feature) will still be available for the creation of recipes and the working of the remote.
These are just some very quick ideas that came into my mind - nothing well thought through but maybe something where somebody will think about on a deeper level.
Nevertheless - I have to also agree that stopping any sales of the hardware itself will kill the whole concept sooner or later... (and the ridiculous "yippeeh: we have now Multi-Brain support - but you are not able to get a new Brain any longer" feels just like a very bad joke...)
so... let's start constructive discussions...
Dear former Neeo colleagues - please prove that you take this serious.... - until now there is no discussion at all, because it takes two sides to discuss - and you did not give any ideas or boundaries from your side so far!