It's Been a Week - My Thoughts and Impressions - UPDATE 27/01

*Warning - this has turned into a long review...*

After 2.5 years, I finally picked up my NEEO here in Iceland on the 15th November. Some of you may remember I have been quite an active voice in the comments section and I have had a variety of interactions with the team over the years - some good, some bad. It was therefore great to finally have the product, but as I've mentioned in other posts, my circumstances have changed a lot in the years since backing it, so my excitement levels weren't as high as they had once been. This is purely because my plans for an IOT connected house are on the back burner following an international relocation. That said, I did want the NEEO to replace the current 5 remote set up in our family living room. There are 4 of us using the set up - me, my wife and my parents. In order for this to be a success we all have to feel comfortable using the NEEO in favour of the 5 remotes. We are controlling a TV, soundbar, Roku, IPTV box and blu-ray player - nothing complicated.

As others have said, the initial impressions are very good. The packaging and hardware certainly indicate an extremely high quality device. The un-boxing experience is good. I didn't really need the quiet room and a favourite song to get enjoyment out of it...(those who have received their NEEO will understand this) but all the same it was a nice un-boxing.

I'm fairly technically minded when it comes to setting new things up. Setting up NEEO was fine. I plugged in the brain to my router and followed the instructions on the app to pair the brain and remote. I also updated the firmware without any issues.

Adding devices is relatively straightforward. I have posted some of the issues I have found with my devices in other posts. I was impressed that my obscure IPTV was added very quickly by the team. Unfortunately, my pretty new and certainly not "stupid" LG OLED TV is classed as stupid. The team is looking into this so hopefully they'll have a fix.

Using the iOS app to get things working is pretty easy. There are some extra taps and steps required for some parts of recipes which I wouldn't describe as intuitive. For instance I cannot find how to add a "Show Controls" function for some of my devices when editing a recipe. I'm sure someone will tell me on here but this will lead to a point later on in this post.

Once the recipes and devices were added I picked up the remote. Pressing "TV" to use the TV starts the recipe and brings me to the "Stupid Devices" messages. I have posted my thoughts on this already but I'll say again - I do not like this implementation at all. It provides false flags in my system and encourages you to toggle devices that do not need to be toggled. For me, I can tell if the soundbar is on/off. For my parents, they don't necessarily know and follow blindly what NEEO suggests. This results in inadvertent power toggling or input switching which is confusing for them. Sure they can learn this but it is far from intuitive. I get why it was done and I appreciate Raphael has said this is being looked at and potentially changed, but it isn't one of the things that "just works". 

I actually find the recipe screens not very useful on the remote itself. The first 2-3 swipes are usually "Stupid Device" messages and then it may be another 2-3 default page swipes (e.g. favourites, coloured buttons) before you reach the area where you can add your own shortcuts. There is no way to edit the order of these pages and unfortunately I haven't found any of the default selected pages useful for my use cases. I'm sure some might but I haven't.

I have therefore been mainly using just the hard buttons. They work as they are supposed to but I will echo others who have said that they would like back-lighting and customisable hard buttons. I know NEEO have claimed in the past that they feel the design on these would have failed if you had to have lighting to show you the buttons (i.e. it should be natural). Well I'm sorry it's not. I'm sure in time new muscle memory will form but in a dark room (it's winter in Iceland so always dark) I need to look at what the buttons are. As do others who are learning the remote for the first time. My parents are not just going to pick up the remote and know what the buttons feel like and start pressing. They are going to put on their reading glasses, spend an age squinting at the buttons and then slowly press them all to see what happens. It would therefore help if they were lit!

We all also need to know that in my Roku recipe for example, pressing the "menu" button takes us to the Roku homescreen and pressing "home" takes me to the NEEO remote homescreen. This is the opposite of the Roku remote system - not a big deal but something that needs to be learned. Unfortunately I have watched first hand the confusion this can cause with my parents navigating Roku, pressing home on the NEEO and then finding themselves in a different menu on the remote. They then press "Roku" to get back in and it runs the recipe from scratch, often toggling my "stupid devices" on or off or changing inputs.

To try and counter this I have edited a number of the recipes to remove some of the unnecessary "Stupid Device" commands being sent but it's still not solved all of them.

Similarly, switching recipes is currently a chore. I have outlined this in my issues post but in short, the "Smart Delay" feature, and known bug, means that switching from watching something on Roku to IPTV takes an absolute age because I have had to add a 15 second delay to the recipes to allow for the time it takes to TV smart features to load when it is switched on. It isn't a big deal when switching everything on for the first time but when trying to swap between different devices when things are on, the delay is confusing and you are left wondering if things are working correctly. I know this will get fixed but right now it makes the remote very frustrating to use. My family all moan how slow it is.

I will say that navigating around is decent when everything is set correctly for each device. I would say 90% of the use has been via the hard buttons on the remote. The currently state of the software design has rendered the touchscreen as something I'm reluctant to use, other than to choose the recipe/device.

Other impressions. The battery life is not going to last the months that were claimed. I had fully charged it the other day, took it out of the cradle and left it on the side for the day, without using it. The charge was at 89% when I picked it up. 11% a day is fine but it's not the months long claims we had. It doesn't matter because it can just sit in its cradle.

The support on Planet NEEO is good. It does however bring me back to a point I made above and that is that using NEEO requires a lot of learning and troubleshooting in these forums. Someone will no doubt tell me how to get the "show controls" command into the recipe which is great. However, it should be obvious already, without having to place a post here. Looking at posts here it is clear that people are having a multitude of issues or questions that need answering. It is almost exclusively all software related too. This is good, because it means it can likely be fixed. But it is also not what we all believed we were getting when the NEEOs were delivered.

This leads me to a point which may not be very popular. I feel that unfortunately NEEO have over-promised and under-delivered and right now we are beta testers for the remote. Hear me out before you jump on me here.

Throughout the campaign and the many monthly updates we were given, we were constantly reassured, in some form or another, that this was a "game changer" or that it "just works". A huge number of superlatives were used throughout every post to describe how great everything was. Award shows were featured prominently as were NEEO's many appearances at trade shows. Everything was painted as amazing and ground breaking, despite the delays. In private emails and conversations with me, it was the same story. I would be amazed by this device and the potential and if only I could see it for myself I would understand how great it all was. This message was repeated over and over to backers over the 2.5 years and therefore the expectations were set very high by Raphael and the team. Having now had the remote for a week I am sorry but it is not what I was promised. NEEO, you set the expectations at a level that were almost impossible to meet and unfortunately I feel they've been missed by quite a long way.

This product is not intuitive to use out of the box. If an average person bought this from a store and wanted it to "just work" I think they would be disappointed. I have actually tested this with my family and can see how hard it is for them to use. It feels like a beta product and that we are acting as beta testers for NEEO right now. I don't personally mind this too much - I would prefer to have had a choice in the matter but I am willing to provide input to improve things for my benefit. I'm pretty convinced however that people would have been expecting things to be a lot further on than where they are and there would be plenty who do not want to have to troubleshoot through things. Someone else posted for example that it felt like we were being used to populate the IR database and I can understand this sentiment too. 

I understand and applaud that improvements are being made and Raphael posted an update himself regarding the issues I was having. However, if you read through, it's a lot of the similar superlatives. The "awesomes", the "powerful", the "better than the competition" comments - I'm sorry Raphael, I don't mean to nit pick like this but it just feels a bit empty now. You promised so much to me personally and to all the backers and I just don't think you've hit the marks you set for us. I get that you believe in this and want to develop things successfully but it may be time to pause with the "we are the best" type comments and focus on what needs to be done to ensure this doesn't fail. I am really impressed with the service so far on Planet NEEO but it makes me very nervous for the company that so much has to be fixed on a product which is now technically available to customers. Similarly so many of the promised features (hand recognition and other product integrations) are not available. This doesn't affect me but I'm sure others would be annoyed by this greatly.

Look, I don't underestimate the huge undertaking required to match hardware and software seamlessly either. But I would point out that my expectations for how well NEEO would seamlessly work were set by you during the campaign. I think it was a big mistake because my genuine first week impressions are of slight disappointment. Even though I didn't necessarily think things would be perfect, it was hard not to expect more based on how you sold it all to us.

Perhaps NEEO offers some solid competition to the likes of Logitech in its current state. If so, that is not to be sniffed at and it is a great achievement. It is not the replacement wonder product that was promised for the last 2.5 years. As things stand, my NEEO is sat charging next to me in my computer room as it isn't ready to replace the 5 remotes in my very normal/average set up. I look forward to the updates that will surely come but I feel strongly that I need to post this today in the hope that it provides some benefit to the team. I would urge everyone at NEEO to reconsider the communication strategy that markets everything with a superlative. I would also encourage a little introspection - the confidence that Raphael has in NEEO is certainly necessary but I think has sometimes bordered on, dare I say, arrogance, that we would all be amazed by our NEEO's. It's great to have a leader who has genuine belief in their product but this would have been better off being somewhat undersold at launch giving us a much more realistic expectation of the status of the software in particular.

I write this (now very long) review with the best of intentions: To describe an average user's first experiences and impressions on the remote based on 2.5 years as an active backer of the project on Kickstarter and regular communicator with the team. My criticisms are supposed to be constructive and I hope are taken in this way. I appreciate I have laid blame here on Raphael in particular but I hope you can understand where I am coming from. You asked us and me personally to believe in you and NEEO and therefore I think it is fair for me to say if I feel let down and why I do.

Please NEEO address both the software and communication issues before one of the big tech blogs gets hold of a remote for review. I don't think the review would be good at this stage and this is not what NEEO needs right now. I wish you all the best and will continue to look forward to being able to use my remote in the (hopefully) near future.

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  • Thanks for sharing. I believe what you experienced was the broken experience people with stupid devices have. It’s certainly is not reflecting an average setup. The stupid device handling isn’t a great experience for some and we listened to the community. This part get not just improvements but also the smartener option. Give the driver team a day or two to fix driver issues (BTW informers driver issues will always exists in some setups). Even the players who are around forever have this issues. It’s a reality with IR. The thing that makes the different is how and how fast it can be fixed. I’m sure Andy and the team can bring you to success with your setup. 

    The new stupid device handling and the smartener are in the works so that last major Ui thing that was annoying for some will be gone. Until then the manual screens are there. 

    I agree that a non technical person won’t know whether or not the soundbar is on or off. This is at least as bad if you are in a assumption mode like found in some of todays remotes.

    What we are coming up with is a „smartener“ based on the real status. Messing with some beta version of it. You will like it.

    Thanks

    Like 3
      • Stefan
      • Stefan.3
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      Raphael First I like to thank James for this Post, it discribes exactly my current level of frustration with neeo. i see that neeo has an amazing potential, but today its hardly usable. Where I disagree with your response Raphael is that the stupid devices are the cause of the problems. The issiue is that you cause devices to be stupid because of your current IR first strategy (+ no IR learning). I have many devices that could be managed perfect per ces, ip or bluetooth, but you implement currently by IR, which is like the emergancy control for these devices. I see two strategy changes that can help you out of this: 

      - let the comunity help to build the database, why cant I build sonethinf and allow others to use this?

      - Universal IR remotes are there since years, and the 30.- remote with IR learning can do better today than neeo in some cases. Add IR learning to the remote and let people uplude there devices the learnd, and focus you efforts on enabling the devices smart (IP, CES, Bluetooth, Zwave)

      Like 3
  • James Long A well-written post that documents your user experience. Nothing you’ve written here should be misconstrued as anything other than constructive criticism from a committed backer who only wants the marketed product they were convinced to invest in. Thanks for sharing!

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      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Dillon Moulder Thanks Dillon, appreciate it. It is meant to be constructive. I just feel the tone from NEEO has been that it would be the all-in-one the solution we've all been promised and it isn't. For example, I am just reading through some other discussions, trying to figure out if there is some way to minimise the stupid device thing and found that even the naming "stupid device" comes from a sense that NEEO and Raphael believe that device "sucks" and is therefore stupid. This sense of high self regard is admirable in some circumstances but when the NEEO isn't yet at the level that was promised, it seems quite "confident" to be calling other manufacturers items "stupid" because they "suck". I really wish they would stick to some better language or give off a slightly more humble tone. It's frustrating because I'm looking for a potential interim solution and just finding the same marketing talk again. 

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      • Dillon_Moulder
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      James Long As far as devices are concerned, I think NEEO chose “stupid” as an antonym for “smart”. Unfortunately, many people take words like “stupid” or “dumb” personally, even when it might be obvious to someone working on a product that it’s not intended in this way at all. Certain words are just loaded with implications, and “stupid” is certainly one of them.

      Like 1
    • Dillon Moulder actually, they chose the word stupid because they consider that the device, in Raphael's words, "sucks". I read it on one of the other posts. That was the genuine reason for naming it like that. It is the opposite of smart but I'm just quoting the big man! I find it irritating to say the least...

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
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      James Long If that's correct, it just reiterates the problem with using the word "stupid" in the first place. I wouldn't have thought it was being used in that context at all. From a marketing and GUI perspective, "stupid" should be near to the top of every company's list of words to avoid.

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      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Dillon Moulder unfortunately it is correct and according to Patrick further in the same thread, where people suggest changing the use of this word, he says he cannot promise that the word itself will change. I get the sense that they're quite proud of the use of this word in the way it comes across which leads me back to my original post and perhaps the need for some introspection. 

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      James Long Wow! I don't see why any company would champion such a divisive word.

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    • Dillon Moulder here's the direct quote from the reply Raphael made about the choice of words. I'll leave it there on this for now but hope it's taken into consideration alongside the other points I make. Quote:

      "Thanks for your comment. We went through very similar thoughts while working on it. Those devices cause so much trouble because they are simply not intended to be reliably controlled. So additional to the fact that those devices are not clever they suck because they don't allow a great experience. Because they are so stupid we said let's called it what it is. Stupid ;) hope this gives you some insights "

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
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      James Long Can't argue with the evidence! I understand the given explanation, but disagree with the conclusion to use the word "stupid" when there are less contentious synonyms available. I expect plenty of market research has already been done on this subject.

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      • James Long
      • James_Long
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      Dillon Moulder said:
      I expect plenty of market research has already been done on this subject.

      Haha, I like your sense of humour 😉

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    • James Long 

      James, I agree, i don‘t think this a wise choice of words. Each time I see it on the remote, I have the same thoughts you voiced. 

      I wonder how many folks can already retire their other remotes, i am certainly not there yet, still waiting till my stupid setop box is supported....

      Like 1
  • @ James Long I'm not sure if your comment 'There is no doubt in my mind that NEEO offers solid competition to the likes of Logitech in its current state.' contains a typo but if not I would disagree strongly that the Neeo in its present state comes anywhere near the functionality and usability of a Logitech. That's not to say it won't improve in time as many of its limitations are software based (though the lack of more hard buttons and backlighting is a big issue I think) but at the moment it is simply an inferior and more complex product. Anyhow, a great review which I'm sure mirrors many peoples feelings.

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      • James Long
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      • 2 yrs ago
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      Barry Wetherilt Actually you're right, it's a mistake - I shouldn't have put that because I don't have any experience with Logitech. In fact, it was just an assumption I made perhaps based on the fact I've heard so many times that NEEO is the answer and therefore I assumed it was comparable with these devices. I will edit accordingly above

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      James Long I think Barry Wetherilt is suggesting that similar Logitech products are better at this moment in time, and so NEEO should not yet be deemed "solid competition". Of course, Barry is best positioned to confirm either way.

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    • Dillon Moulder James Long Hi Dillion you're correct.

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      Barry Wetherilt 👍

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Barry Wetherilt After reading this article, Logitech might not seem so great either! 😉

      Like
    • Dillon Moulder Barry Wetherilt funnily enough, I did have one of the very early Logitech remotes many years ago, perhaps back when they were relatively new. The weird thing is that using NEEO kind of reminds me of that experience. It was a battle to get recipes (or whatever they were called then) to work and it ended up being pretty confusing. At least the team at NEEO can fix issues via software updates which I think would be tricky with the giant that is Logitech!

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    • James Long I think my greatest gripe is the lack of an IR learning mode - and I know NEEO say it's coming but it really should have been there at backer launch - every 2 bit remote has a learning mode! Waiting days for a device to be added, finding missing controls, some not working or even worse they aren't able to find codes for a device is just plain crazy and makes the NEEO (at the moment) a Stupid device 😉

      Like 4
    • Dillon Moulder interesting and just goes to show all devices have problems. I'm actually using an old Harmony One - IR only no hub - which happily controls all my devices from the mainstream to the odd. Never had any real problems with it or the online software you use to configure it. I am hoping that the NEEO software improves rapidly and I can ditch the Harmony as the NEEO hardware is simply beautiful!

      Like 1
  • James Long said:
    I just feel the tone from NEEO has been that it would be the all-in-one the solution we've all been promised and it isn't.

    It isn’t for YOU right now. I understand and respect that. Certainly it already is that for many users today. But we care equally as much for YOUR experience and - we will get yours fixed as well. Thanks

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      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Raphael A quick addition. Thank you for singling out that I'M the one having issues and indicating that this is an issue localised to me today. It is exactly the response I had expected. I respectfully disagree that my disappointment is limited to my experience - this is what we are talking about. YOU set those expectations and YOU should stand by them and hold YOUR hands up when they have not been met. I am far from alone in my disappointment Raphael and I don't think the old "many users are happy" type excuse is befitting what I was trying to point out. Expectations vs reality. Simple as that. 

      Like 10
      • Dillon Moulder
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      James Long In the immortal words of Michael Jackson, “you are not alone”. 😉

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      • Julian
      • Julian
      • 2 yrs ago
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       Hmm, as stated I think that there are more people with exact these issues (me also being one of them!) so it is indeed a bit easy to say it is not working only for you. Like I and others already posted some choices were made by NEEO which had as a result that it is not easy or intuitive to use in day to day life. And which are handled correctly by the Harmony remote (sometimes I get the feeling they want to do it differently than Harmony just so that it ís different, and then state that it is better. No matter how bad it actually works then). I have the Harmony Elite with hub so I can compare these perfectly. For now the Harmony stays the main remote untill a number of changes are made in the software NEEO, till then it is just a piece of nice looking hardware.  

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      • Alex T
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      Julian i m having the same issues as well. 

      I just can’t figure why the guys that are happy with whatever they got and works for them are trying to silence people that are unhappy with a pretty much unusable remote.

      so much was promised, so little delivered. Even the damn battery that was the reason of delay after delay as stated by them doesn t last 30% of what they said they achieved. 

       

      But it s all been said over and over....

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      • James Long
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      Alex T Julian thanks guys for your input and confirming that you are having similar experiences. I was not please to be singled out by Raphael as perhaps being in the minority with the experiences I have had. His initial response seemed positive but then he appears to have taken issue with further comments which was unprofessional of him in his position. 

      It's good to know that some backers have clearly had a better experience than I have but from what I can see in these forums, those who are taking the time to review NEEO and express disappointment far outnumber those who are writing glowing reviews. I have no issue with people commenting to say that they have no issues either. It's good to know that there is hope. 

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    • James Long The amount of users that are having issues are actually the minority. this doesn't mean that its still a huge group of issues to be solved by the driver team. Around 90%+ of the issues are driver related. These issues can be missing commands, timers that needs changes and other small and easily fixable issues. NEEO doesn't have all these devices at their office to just test them so the first user with a specific device might run into these issues if there are any.  Luckily most of these issues are fixed within a very short time (typically 1 to 3 days). It still is just the case that for most people it just works. In that regards Raphael is totally correct.

      The biggest perceived issue is currently the stupid device handling, at least it's perceived that way by many users. and the NEEO team is working on a feature change.

      If people have issues, please create a separate post per issue and try to be as clear as possible on the issue. also add all info that might be relevant. the better the post is the faster it can be fixed.

      The reason I've asked to do another review later on is because the issues with the devices you are having where(or are) still being worked on to be fixed.

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      • James Long
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      • 2 yrs ago
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      Niels de Klerk understood of course. I don't have a problem with drivers and giving info to the team to solve specific device issues, as I have in other posts. I don't agree that for most people "it just works" as the evidence is simply not there to say that. It may be the case that most users are perfectly happy and not commenting. But even with all my devices now technically working, it does not "just work". By that I mean that my family are not getting to grips with the system with the software in its current form. I don't agree that it's just stupid device. It's linked to the stupid devices, but also to the smart delay issues and non-intuitive menus. There are too many times when the wrong item is chosen or pressed to be able to call this intuitive enough to just work. That's partly the UI and current implementation of things. I'm aware it's all going to be continually updated but I'd be keen to know when - hence my other post asking for times frames.

      My initial review remains that it was unexpected that it would be like this. Not the device driver issues, but the usability. I am hopeful it will be improved. It does not change the fact I was singled out by Raphael as perhaps alone in my issues. This thread and others more than show that is not the case. It didn't warrant that type of response. We all know what it means when someone starts using CAPITALS to make a point...

      I have already said I would update my review if/when things improve. But my review is a first impressions after 1 week review. I would imagine a tech blog or website would do something similar. The difference is that they're unlikely to wait however long it will take for those improvements. First impressions count. My impressions were greatly influenced by what I was told in the lead up to receiving my remote and therefore may have been different if things hadn't been so hyped up.

      Look, ultimately I want to be able to use my remote. I just need to know when that is likely to be so I hope my other post can be answered soon, with detail, and that the team at NEEO take on this feedback and work harder to implement more realistic communication moving forward regarding expectations.

      Like 6
      • Dillon Moulder
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      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Niels de Klerk said:
      The amount of users that are having issues are actually the minority.

      As much as I hope that this is true, I think such a statement is speculative. I don’t think you can substantiate such a claim without supporting evidence. Perhaps if a public backer satisfaction survey had been conducted on Planet NEEO we’d know for certain. Having read topic after topic here, I’d say the majority of people have struggled at very least, and the initial user experience has been far from ideal. Of course, my conclusion could be wrong as I do not have access to any metrics. Another thing I do know for sure is that having had access to the product for some time now, you’re a great asset here!

      Like 2
    • Dillon Moulder I think it's not speculative. I've seen all the beta users coming in with only a small percentage having issues that where mostly solved within the same day of reporting them. then I've seen the big US batch of users coming in, again a small percentage of issues and most if not all of these issues where resolved way before the rest of the world came in. I have no exact numbers but I have a very good idea about what's going on here on planet.

      If I'm looking at the user base of my NEEO/Homey integration I've found only ~5% that had reported issues here on Planet (not related to my integration 😎) 

      Being or not being satisfied and having issues are in my opinion two different things but they off course influence one and another.

      In the end it's not important what the percentage of people is that are experiencing issues. its more important that there are people that are experiencing issues. The NEEO team is very active in resolving all of them. Also some very experienced users are helping out as well.

      I can absolutely not relate to some of the posts. i.e. my family never had issues using NEEO. I've asked my absolutely non techy wife to do a fresh install where I placed all the parts in the box and asked her to set it all up. everything went super smooth. point here is that user experience can be very different between one and another. 

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Niels de Klerk The private beta program has been running since at least March 2017, so I would expect the product awareness of it’s participants to be improved over that of end users who are solely part of the Planet NEEO community. I’m sure that you’ve been sharing video footage on YouTube since March 2017, so NEEO has been in your hands for quite some time now. Perhaps you and your family feel the way that you do because NEEO has been part of your household for 9 months. Your household is perhaps also at an advantage because of your aptitude for coding and your familiarity with smart home technology. In this sense, you aren’t necessarily representative of the typical backer/end user on Planet NEEO.

      I agree that the team are highly engaged and committed to resolving issues. I also find your participation on Planet NEEO insightful and valuable, so I hope this continues.

      Like 3
    • Dillon Moulder I was referring to the initial adoption, doesn't make sense to mention that after nearly a year my family has adopted the remote lol 😀. I have replaced the harmony within a week after I got the NEEO. soon after I gave the harmony away to a colleague.

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      Dillon Moulder Niels de Klerk I agree with you Dillon here. Niels, there is no scenario where my parents or family or anyone I can think of (who isn't techie) would have found it smooth to set up NEEO and get it running without issues. My family are all experienced iPhone and computer users, they're not technophobes by any stretch. They would not have been able to figure out why a recipe was cycling through the inputs on the soundbar for example. They would not have known to go in and delete step 4 of the recipe as it wasn't needed. 

      They are representative of the end user NEEO needs to have for this to become a mass market device, not just an enthusiast's device. 

      But the main point I have against all this is that my expectation for what NEEO would be, based on what was marketed by NEEO, and in particular Raphael, is vastly different from what it is. Honestly, terms like "revolutionary" and "it just works" do not relate to the experience I have had. Niels, you almost know me by now - you know I have been up and down over the last 2.5 years but ultimately I've been supportive of this, sometimes very vocally, sometimes whilst being attacked for being so (not as much as you have been admittedly). I am honestly gutted that it isn't what I was led to believe it would be. I've even re-read some of Raphael's emails to me with quotes like:

      "You say you would rather wait for a retails version to be on a shelf. of course that's your personal decision. Just for your info - in our case the retail version and the kickstarter version are identical."

      Things like this led me to believe we would be getting a finished product. 

      The team are exceptionally quick at fixing driver issues for specific devices. This is fantastic and will be needed for NEEO to be successful. On top of that however is the need for the underlying software and UI to intuitive to use. This is why I can only judge whether NEEO is going to be successful if I know when the software updates are going to come through and fix some of these issues - stupid devices, smart delays, UI improvements. 

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      Niels de Klerk I’m pleased that it took you no more than 7 days to decide to reject the Harmony in favour of the NEEO. That’s a strong testimony. However, if all users here on Planet NEEO were given no more than 7 days to make a final decision regarding the product, I don’t get the impression that the majority would do exactly the same, especially when given it under the premise that “it just works”. I’m not disputing that others share your total confidence in the product, but it is clear that many don’t even if they genuinely want to feel that way about it.

      None of these sentiments are intended to cause people to lose interest in the product, but rather to encourage thought and dialogue on how the user experience can be improved.

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    • James Long As said (and meant) - we care equally as much for YOUR experience and - we will get yours fixed as well. Thanks

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      Raphael Ok thank you. It was more the singling out that my experience:

      "...isn’t for YOU right now." and then pointing out that many others have been fine. I don't think that is the case at all based on what people are posting. Regardless of others, my experience is not what you led me to believe it would be but you have not addressed that at all. That's my main point in all this anyway.

      I've always been appreciative of the efforts made by the team at NEEO to resolve issues now that NEEO is in people's hands and I'm sure you'll try hard to improve my experience.

      I reiterate though, my experience is by no means unique and I trust that you take the less positive feedback constructively. I did not appreciate your tone and have said so publicly on here and privately to you in a message.

      However, backers know that I have always been willing to give NEEO a chance and that has not changed. Therefore I wait for your promised updates and hope that things move towards what has been promised all along.

      Like 3
  • Raphael said:
    You will like it.

    Raphael, thank you for taking the time to respond and I'm sorry I couldn't speak to you today. I appreciate you trying to identify the issues I'm having and you are likely right on the technical side. Please understand my point though is that my expectations for the device were set entirely by you during our interactions over the years, as well as with the updates you wrote during the campaign. I think my main issue is that after all the hype that you built, I have been disappointed by the experience. You suggested before that if I had actually handled the remote and experienced NEEO first hand I would understand better. Having now had the chance to do so I do not think that it is the solution that you had painted.

    Look it's an amazing piece of hardware kit and the guys are clearly working all out to get the software side of things resolved but you have to understand the potential disappointment I feel after you had repeatedly asked me to be patient and believe in NEEO. You say again "you will like it" - what if I don't? This is the issue right here - setting expectations of what I will and won't like. I don't mean to be rude but it is frustrating to be constantly told that this device is incredible, will be amazing, is powerful. In fact a small part of me believes that I may be the issue because this should be an amazing experience according to everything I've been told over the years. Perhaps it's just me? But that wouldn't explain the difficulties my family have had. Or the other users reporting back with similar disappointments. I get teething problems in new hardware and software but this is not what I'm talking about. 

    You say my issues are not reflective of an average set up but my set up is exactly that - average. I'm only looking to control a few devices, stupid or not, I'm not looking to do much of anything. I had been expecting a seamless experience that could be picked up by family with ease but they are confused by it. That is where we are today.

    I'm sure it will improve in time but please don't be disappointed,  after spending 2.5 years hyping up a product to unrealistic levels, if users are responding on here if they don't have the favourable experience they were promised repeatedly. You set the expectations and have to stand by them. I am encouraged by you and your team's proactive approach to fixing things but I stand by my belief in the need for a bit of introspection. I think the disconnect between the expectations you set over the years and the experiences that some are having is a big deal and something that could be harmful to NEEO if it isn't resolved super quick. I continue to wish you all the best in your efforts to get this to where you promised it would be. 

    Like 4
  • James Long said:
    If an average person bought this from a store 

    Sorry for the issues you and others are having with "stupid" devices, fortunately all of my devices are "smart" and after having some commands initially added/updated, NEEO "just works" for my system (gear is in profile).  My Harmony One, which for the last year, could not change AVR input when starting any activity, is long gone.  That was my 3rd and last Harmony, as hardware failed on all.  The firmware/UI definitely still has a long way to go meet all the features promised, but I believe it will get there faster than some think.  It is statements like the one quoted above that bother me.  You can't buy this in a store.  I understand owners that are having set up issues and wish IR learning was available.  If I had devices that weren't in the database, I may be complaining about this.  Looking at it from NEEOs side, and what is best for when they do launch in stores and the community as a whole, I understand that they want to fix as many issues in-house, so that commands/setup is insanely simple when available for retail.  I think the majority of people who will buy this in a store, aren't looking for a remote that they have to add commands to, and that's what they would get if we were allowed to do this now.  Issues about backlit buttons (mentioned in this thread) or lack of play/pause hard buttons (mentioned in plenty of other threads) should not be relevant.  The hardware is exactly as it was when Kickstarter began, and these things were not included. If anybody needed these features to enjoy their remote, they should have looked elsewhere.  On a side note,I am amused that in the beginning, a great many backers were fed up with Harmony, and wanted change.  Now all I read is people are pissed that it is different, or Harmony does it this way. Interesting.  Buy a Harmony. I firmly believe, and hope,  that the NEEO team will be able to have everyone's systems working in a shorter time than some think, but as everything in life, some will have to wait longer than others.

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      Dave H thanks for your input. I think you are missing the key point I was trying to make in that we were giving expectations that when we received our devices, things would just work. I was personally told over and over things like "if only you could experience it" or "once you get it you'll see" type comments meaning that I was surprised and disappointed that I had issues with it and that it seems a long way from being ready. We were not told that we would be beta testers for X amount of time.

      I am not a Harmony user and haven't been. I disagree that in the time since the campaign finished that hardware changes and ideas couldn't have been considered. My thoughts on it are that having now had the remote, things like backlighting and hardware buttons would actually be useful, based on my experience of using NEEO in it's current state - I do not find the touchscreen part of the experience user friendly enough yet. That is my point, not that I wanted these features - they are design improvement suggestions which were dismissed pretty early on as being a sign of it being a design failure.

      It's good it's not available at retail yet. How far we are from that being the case is unknown. Case by case issue fixing will help but it's going to need to be magnitudes or order more user friendly than it is today to meet the promise that Raphael has been hyping in the last 2 years.

      Like 3
  • Dave H said:
    You can't buy this in a store.

    Last time I checked, you can pre-order from the NEEO website and submit your credit card details, which surely constitutes buying it from a store (albeit online).

    Like 1
    • Dillon Moulder Sorry.  Not the same.

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      Dave H Legally, it is the same and affords consumer rights. You’re buying a product from a company over the internet.

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      Dillon Moulder Dave H Dave, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but it seems like a pretty weak effort at defending NEEO. They've delivered now and it is in backers hands. They continue to offer it for sale to new customers. The agreement wasn't that we would be part of a beta testing process whilst they got ready for an official retail release. I was personally assured that I would be blown away by NEEO when I received it and I haven't been. I am not alone in this sentiment at all.  I have been entirely constructive in my criticisms and I don't think I have said anything that is wrong in my posts today.

      Frankly I have had 2.5 years of people steadfastly defending NEEO and it's starting to happen in here now. Honestly, if you don't want to hold NEEO to account and you are genuinely satisfied with the project, as it has been sold, then I'm pleased for you. But please do not spend time trying to justify what has been a vastly over-hyped build up to an underwhelming experience for me and it would certainly appear to be a decent number of others. 

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    • James Long Point is that NEEO works as advertised for a lot of users.  Hope it works for you soon.

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      Dave H The product working for you and others does not constitute it working as advertised. Can the product control your heating right now (without bespoke third-party drivers or beta firmware) if you own Nest products? No, it can’t. However, the company website advertises that it can without any caveats. Is hand-recognition and SOS mode enabled? No, it isn’t but the website advertises this functionality as if it is.

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      Dave H And those of us for whom it doesn't are not entitled to feel let down after all the promises? What purpose does it have to point that out in relation to my post? Am I somehow wrong in what I have written? It's just an attempt to belittle the experience I have had as less important because "many users" or a "lot of users" are apparently perfectly happy. I'm not sure where this comes from as I have not seen a wealth of positive reviews. Perhaps people don't say anything when they're happy? That was an excuse used often during the campaign to conclude why only a few people were complaining. 

      I think the "if you're not happy, buy a Harmony" type comment you started with is ridiculous. Many of us did not buy Harmony's or alternatives because we were promised an amazing device that would render the competition worthless and work from day one. 

      Like 4
    • James Long No attempt to belittle you.  Just posting my views.  I'll let you guys carry on without any differing viewpoints.

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      Dave H Your views and opinions are are just as relevant as anybody elses. Discussion is a healthy thing, so thank you for sharing your thoughts.

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      • James Long
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      Dave H I'm not stopping opposing view points and I appreciate you contributing for sure. I just don't understand why you would suggest that we should go out and buy a Harmony if we are not happy. It's hardly constructive feedback for those of us who waited patiently on the promise of NEEO being a great remote is it? Have you spoken to Raphael personally and received the reassurances I had about how great my experience would be? Would you not be disappointed therefore to watch your parents fumble around and execute all sorts of wrong commands because they do not find the remote intuitive to use? I'm not saying that they would find Harmony any better but the expectation, based on everything I was told personally, and we were told as a collective of backers, is different to the final outcome.

      Like 2
  • This discussion seems pretty pointless. please understand that you are an early adopter, using a newly developed product never used on a large scale by consumers ever before. If you, looking back on the road behind us, still dont understand the enormous amount of work it takes to make hardware AND software from scratch, then kickstarter is not for you! i think that kickstarter even warns you about this before you participate.. yes promises where made, and broken, boe f#king hoe.. what you have in your hand is a bangi'n piece of hardware, for people who cant see the potential, or dont understand that this is the start of an other long journey (one we now can travel togheter) , go buy something else. if not, please give some constructive criticism and stop crying, omg.. 

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      • James Long
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      • 2 yrs ago
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      Remko 

      Remko said:
      still dont understand the enormous amount of work it takes to make hardware AND software from scratch

       I stated that I fully understood this in my original post - did you read it?

      Remko said:
      yes promises where made, and broken, boe f#king hoe

      I'm not sure that is a particularly convincing attempt to change my mind so I'll confirm that it hasn't.

      Remko said:
      what you have in your hand is a bangi'n piece of hardware

       I said that it was excellent hardware in my original post - did you read it?

       

      Remko said:
      dont understand that this is the start of an other long journey (one we now can travel togheter)

       I wasn't told it would be the start of another long journey. It's been 2.5 years. I was promised personally that I would be amazed by my experience with NEEO. My expectations were managed very poorly. How come yours were so different?

       

      Remko said:
      go buy something else

       I was told not to because NEEO would mean I wouldn't need to

       

      Remko said:
      please give some constructive criticism and stop crying, omg

       I said in my original post that what I was posting was constructive criticism. Others have said this is what it was and Raphael also thanked me for contributing. Did you read any of this?

       

      Thank you for contributing to the discussion with your views. 

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      Remko James Long has offered nothing other than constructive criticism. I’m sure he respects your right to an opinion, so making childish retorts such as “boe f#king hoe” (perhaps you actually meant “boohoo”?) are unnecessary and disrespectful.

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      Dillon Moulder James Long Yes, i read the first post, Main reason of commenting is the last few comment about expectations not being met..  if you expected a perfect bug free do it all product you are, with al due respect, a bit naive. Looking at it today, there are 2 things you can do, 1 be happy with the product (there a enough examples where kickstart campaigns went belly up), hope for fast and quick feature updates, and use the remote for what it can do, submit bug reports, and share our thought and insights. Or we can complain, complain and complain some more.. one of the options is not helping anybody. (this thread was turning into one) 

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      • James Long
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      Remko I never expected a perfect product but I expected more than where it is today. This was based on what I was told throughout the campaign personally and through the updates. You have no place calling me naive. I trusted what I was told and maintained a mainly positive belief that I would get what I was promised.

      This thread is a my impressions post. You didn't have to read it and it wasn't designed to help necessarily other than to perhaps provide NEEO with some guidance in communicating more effectively in the future. 

      I am doing the other things you say I should be doing already. I cannot use the remote in its current state as it is not usable for my family. I have outlined why in detail. I have shared my thoughts and insights and for some reason you have decided you don't like them or they are not positive enough to constitute the right thoughts and insights?

      I am not simply going to sit back and be glad that NEEO were able to deliver something when so many others haven't. I have backed 22 projects on Kickstarter so I'm no fool in this regard.

      My first post is EXACTLY about expectations not being met. I think it is NEEO's biggest issue. It was hyped to ridiculous levels throughout the 2.5 years and the expectations were raised by the team. I'm not the only one to have commented that it is not what was expected. 

      I don't really know what you want me to say Remko. I'm not happy with the outcome as things stand and I'm disappointed. Telling me I shouldn't be and to do things that I have already done/am doing isn't really offering any help yourself is it?

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      Remko  I think James Long has made it abundantly clear that he only expected from NEEO what he was told to expect. I don’t get the impression he was ever expecting a mature product entirely free of defects. His feedback is definitely valuable to prospective customers, and should be treated as such by the company too.

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      Dillon Moulder thanks Dillon for the understanding. That is exactly what I am trying to say in my long winded way.

      I am frustrated that there are those who will try to shut down or seemingly belittle those who say anything bad about NEEO. It happened on the campaign and it will happen in here. I fear it fuels the view at NEEO that they're invincible with this unbeatable product that everyone loves - that it's only a few haters/moaners who will just complain about anything and aren't worth listening to. 

      It's genuinely dangerous for NEEO to have created this gulf between expectations and reality and if it isn't addressed the press will not be kind to a retail version, and neither will the buying public at large.

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      • James Long
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      Remko I thought I recognised your name from the comments. I just double checked and you used to be on my side! What's changed? 😉 You posted this as part of a longer message on Kickstarter in August 2016:

      "But NEEO does not live up on what they say. and i find that very disrespectful!! "

      I don't post this to be difficult but to show that NEEO haven't been good at managing our expectations for a long time and at one point in time you felt strongly enough to post about it, as I have done today.

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      James Long I’ve read enough comments and reviews to accept that your concerns are justified, however unwelcome or awkward some might find them. I don’t think anything you’ve said diminishes the success of the Kickstarter campaign, the quality of the hardware, or the potential of the product. Nothing you’ve posted constitutes initiating a hate campaign. You’ve kindly offered an honest and articulate account of your user experience. Thanks again.

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      • James Long
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      Dillon Moulder my pleasure and I'm sure the team at NEEO will take it on board. Raphael wanted me to call him today but I haven't been able to so I know they are listening

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      James Long Raphael seems like a great guy, and there’s no disputing how much he cares about the product. I’m sure you’ll both benefit from the opportunity to discuss things offline.

      Like 1
  • James Long said:
     it may be another 2-3 default page swipes (e.g. favourites, coloured buttons) before you reach the area where you can add your own shortcuts. There is no way to edit the order of these pages and unfortunately I haven't found any of the default selected pages useful for my use cases. I'm sure some might but I haven't.

     I find the default pages pretty useless as well.  It has been mentioned in many threads that re-ordering, and hopefully hiding, these pages will come soon.  You can swipe the opposite way to get to shortcuts page with only one swipe.

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      • James Long
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      Dave H thanks Dave, I hadn't seen that nor knew I could swipe the other way. I think the instructions say swipe left, and as I've proven tonight in what I've said, I follow instructions perhaps too blindly! 😉

      Like 1
    • James Long Instructions?  We don't need stinking instructions.  Some documentation would be nice.

      Like 3
    • Dave H Soon™ 

      it's been fun (mostly) guys but I'm off to bed here in Iceland. I'll just go switch off my kit before I do...

      Like
    • James Long HaHa.  Soon!  I know its been a long wait.  If you notice, most of the issues being reported now are from EU.  It seems as most of the issues. regarding commands for home theater equipment, from initial shipments to U.S have been fixed within 4-6 weeks.  This is why I am confident you should be able to control your system properly.  Soon!  Hopefully their newest fix for you works out.

      Like 1
  • A great example on having constructive criticism. I know the NEEO guys are taking this very seriously. I don’t own stupid devices so I don’t have the experience but it seems there are no users that like it and I’m sure things will change for the better.

     

    I want to add to your post that most of the issues you are now having are driver related and I believe that even if it took NEEO an additional 5years that I believe the same issues would rise. The product database gets mostly better with every user and the driver team to support it. I would call these early adopter issues.

     

    Could you also write a post like this after your driver issues are resolved? I bet that other things will come up but you will be leaning more to the amazing judgement 😊.

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      • James Long
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      Niels de Klerk thanks as always for your kind and helpful response. It's always been refreshing over the last 2.5 years. I know you think this is a fantastic product and understand it far better than most users do.

      I agree that these are early adopter issues. It's just that we've been early adopters with issues for a long time now! I had hoped, and was led to believe, that the experience would be amazing from day one (with minor niggles expected of course). 

      You know I will of course update any review or post I make, as I always have done, if things are fully rectified. I am actually going to start a new post now because I think the most important thing I want to understand is the time frames for fixes. If this is something that is going to take a year to get into a state that makes it a viable replacement for the remotes in my household, it just won't work.

      Like 1
  • Agree with many of the issues you’ve identified James Long . My wife and parents in law also struggle to use it. I’ve got a similar set up with LG OLED B6 (not ‘stupid’), Marantz AVR, Apple TV, Virgin TiVo and PS4/XB1. The screen layout options or lack thereof are my biggest bugbear. I also am using the hardware buttons almost exclusively as the touchscreen is simply not that helpful or user friendly. Agree that backlit keys would have been helpful, but that was never part of the plan. Maybe V2?. Whether everything turns off when asked to is sporadic. The PS4 HDMI control simply doesn’t work. I’ve got around all this to a certain extent by removing HDMI PS4 control, and using my old remotes in conjunction with NEEO when I need to (ie to turn stuff on or off). One might therefore argue that all I’ve done is add another remote to my many remotes. Still, I have faith that bugs will be ironed out, and the hardware is nice. Fingers crossed!

     

    Thanks for posting your thoughts. You’re not the only one. But I’m still hopeful it will all work out.

    Like 4
    • Nim Wickramasinghe thanks for your input also. It sounds like you are in a similar position to me. I am also hopeful it will work out too. I am hopeful that the team at NEEO will answer my other post soon https://planet.neeo.com/t/80kvyy/time-frame-for-updates.

      I think this is important because it will give an idea of when things are likely to be in a more usable state. If we are talking another 6-12 months then I can't see me ending up using NEEO in a meaningful way. I'll end up putting NEEO in a cupboard somewhere and probably not visiting the forums that regularly and forgetting about it all. Also the hardware will only be getting older with things like battery life deteriorating. Therefore I hope things are resolved quickly outside of just adding device support into their database.

      Like
  • Dillon Moulder said:
    even if they genuinely want to feel that way about it.

     I absolutely want to feel that way about it 😀

    Like 1
  • So, as a quick update, my remote remains waiting for the updates which I remain hopeful and optimistic about. 

    However, unfortunately in private communications with Raphael in the last 2 days I have been called "negative", "super negative" and "After having read about your expectation I doubt - even when we fix stuff you will be fully happy."

    I have thought long and hard about whether to share any of my personal interactions here but I feel these represent perhaps the only parts I could share without causing damage to NEEO. I have also been asked multiple times to keep things confidential, despite not asking for the information that was shared nor feeling comfortable with the requests made associated with this confidentiality. I have no problem with respecting confidentiality and I have done a number of times throughout the campaign when requested to. However it isn't a demand that can be made to suit a narrative (which in this case was that I post only positive and optimistic comments on here or alternatively contact Raph directly) and I have felt uncomfortable with how it has been abused in communications with me. In saying I felt uncomfortable about this I was labelled as I describe above.

    I am now disappointed to say the least. I felt my first impressions were constructive rather than negative and my only intention was to provide feedback that would be helpful for NEEO and for backers. After all, I only want my NEEO remote working. I have been a patient, sometimes enthusiastic and sometimes disappointed backer for 2.5 years and have only wanted the team to succeed and for me to get what was promised.

    I continue to remain hopeful and also hope that Raphael perhaps reconsiders his decision to be the voice of NEEO in all personal interactions with backers. Some things are best left to professional PR people.

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      • Alex T
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      James Long this is all very crap and i feel for you, and us, neeo beneficiaries, as a whole.

      After being constantly (well, every 1, 2 months when they felt like posting an update) told that all the delays are to make the product perfect, after finally delivering the product is nowhere near what it was promised and apparently we are supposed to be happy with that, pretty much for the sole reason that they delivered rather than go under like a lot of other kickstarters...

      I am looking further to future firmware updates, maybe some stuff will get better, but seeing as how people that are not happy with what they got are kind of stigmatised, i will probably not hold my breath.

      The fact that it's the most expensive I ever bought, waited for, had high hopes for, and is just sitting is not helping, at all.

       

      p.s. thank you Niels de Klerk , you have done a lot more for neeo and their remote than they seem to want to do themselves.

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      Hey Alex T - I'm still hopeful that updates will solve the main issues making it usable in my household. I'm certainly not giving up on it and will update my impressions as and when the updates come through. I am disappointed that the team continue to refuse to provide any ETA's for anything - that's not me being negative, it's just honesty and something I thought may change following the end of the campaign.

      It is a shame that communication has been handled as it has been but I have said my piece on it and hopefully won't have to say any more. The majority of the team seem responsive and quick to fix easy things like device drivers which is good at least.

      I would encourage users to continue to post their honest feedback, whether it is done positively or negatively - as long as it is honest then no one should feel uncomfortable.

      Like 1
    • James Long Thanks for your input, which I heartly agree to onto every single word, sillable, letter. Not only have you chosen words "considerate and respectful" (much more than I ever could) but I also feel them vey constructive and helpful for NEEO to become the contender they intended to become - if they allow themselves to consider. Which I truly hope they do, being a backer and as such supporter of not only a good product idea and vision but also a young startup company. As with every youngsters, they may be advised to put their stubborness aside and pay attention and respect to experienced voices - and concluding from your writng, you are.

      Having said so, I need to express (if that hasn't become clear through my own previous comments here and on KS) I am also one of those "very few" singularities that feel NEEO has not yet even closely delivered to  the mouthwettening visions and promises. Also, like you I am a bit tired (if not even put off) of announced but discarded (or postoned until further notice) features being sold as technological progress and advance with an attitude I don't understand.

      E.g. I am still waiting for my speakers to be controllable (non stupid devices btw.) via IR after many weeks. But as IR learning has been scratched off the feature list because of being the inferior concept and despite me having forwarded the IR code derived from one of my contacts with the manufacturer the Live IR test codes failed, the current only valid option now seems to have me sending my remote in so they can backward engineer th NEC Ir code put out.

      Don't get me wrong, I totally appreciate the commitment and efforts of the team in trying their best to support a system that with no doubt can be estimated oddball and possibly I am the only one now and in the future that has both NEEO and this piece of equipment So, thanks, NEEO and especially Andy for this and I will await instructions of how to get my remote forth and back to (hopefully) Solothurn and looking forward to do the first real live practical tests during holiday break (hopefully, too).

      Just, my Harmony can - due to a feature announced (or should I dare to say "promised") for NEEO as well. With IR learning in place this wouldn't have become even neccessary and I feel the team burns more mobey building up a database this way than simply implement IR learning (if the hardware even is capable of doing so, who knows).

      And not only can Harmony do this but with no effort and since several years controls my complete home setup with stupid devices -  and - an Amazon Fire TV. Also with Bluetooth as an announced feature is also only forthcoming eventually. (Yes, I hear you, never did they announce FTBV support, but, heck, what BT for then at all if not Sony PS and AFTV as with no argueing being the most ubiquitous applications?)

       

      As a matter of fact, my speakers I run my TV sound through and Amazon FireTV (which I use for streaming and playing back recordings from my NAS scheduled via DVB Link) cannot be controlled at all. Hue contol is below the subpar implemetnation in Harmony (which atr least allows me to control groups from the Hue bridge), to a level I don't even start to consider pursueng plans getting Z-Wave equipment for Christmas.

      What I had put my hope in NEEO was to do this on the same level as Harmony, excel at controlling my HUE setup and adding Z-Wave devices into it. Let me just recite from the campaign:

      Without NEEO

      • Grab TV remote
      • Power on TV
      • Switch to AVR remote 
      • Power on AVR 
      • Change AVR input channel to the DVD’s output 
      • Grab DVD remote 
      • Power on DVD Player 
      • Grab smartphone 
      • Search app for lightbulbs 
      • Dim lights to „Movie mode" 
      • Switch back to DVD remote 
      • Press play
      • Grab the AVR remote to adjust volume if needed

      => 3 remotes, a smartphone app and many button presses needed

      With NEEO

      • Grab NEEO remote 
      • Tap DVD icon 
      • Wait a few seconds and watch the magic happen 
      • Press play

      => 1 NEEO remote

      But, what I found myself with in fact currently is:

      With NEEO

      • Grab NEEO remote 
      • Tap DVD icon 
      • Get told you have a stupid device and awkwardly manually switch on the device in question. (I have my Samsung Bluray setop on all the time to rapidly being able toswitch forth and back between broadcast TV and streaming)
      • Get told that you can now grab your FireTV remote
      • Grab AFTV remote to wake the AFTV
      • Grab speaker remote
      • Power on speakers
      • Grab smartphone
      • Search app for lightbulbs control the lights via HuePro widget on homescreen
      • Grab AFTV remote
      • Press play
      • Grab speaker remote to adjust volume if needed

      => 3 remotes (one of them being NEEO just used to launch a recipe), a smartphone app and many button presses needed

      With Harmony:

      • Grab Harmony
      • Tap Watch Amazon Fire TV
      • Wait a few seconds
      • navigate and press play
      • if required grab the smartphone to make quick adjustments to the light setup via HuePro widget)

      => 1 Harmony (smartphone optional)

      This should make very clear to see why NEEO just cannot replace, leave alone supercede my Harmony - that I was tempted in getting a Elite 950 for 115,- EUR during Amazon Cyberweek for the  3 Hue scen buttons alone should speak for itself.

      This may not go for everyone, OK, but you James Long are by far not alone and dissing the Logitech is just not justified, neither by fellow backers nor NEEO as a contender.

      So Raphael , please do your best to improve the experience for US. And also, just believe us, we're not hating NEEO - not at all. matter of fact, we absolutely  do want to love the product, why shouldn't we - but, it's up to you to make us so.
       

      Like 5
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Klaus Grosser thanks for your comments Klaus, I appreciate the support and I'm glad to be part of a community that is so helpful ultimately. It isn't easy to be told continually that many have no issues and find the experience:

      “by far best product ever backed”

      “Best remote on this planet”

      "OMG it works beautifully - Thanks sooo much.”

      For those wondering, these are quotes sent to me by Raphael in his email this week I guess to indicate that my experience was an apparent anomaly - please judge for yourself how this would make you feel if you're experience did not match.

      For me it made me feel that perhaps I was wrong in some way. I realise now that was not the case at all and I'm glad of those who have been supportive and contributed with their own honest, non-sugar coated and constructive experiences so we can all hopefully make NEEO better. Who knows, maybe one day we'll all be saying these types of things.

      Like 3
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Klaus Grosser Thanks for sharing your feedback. I read this with interest.   The devices you’re using are a common part of a user’s setup, so the information should contribute to managing user expectations of NEEO (as the delivered product currently stands), as well as help the NEEO team with prioritising tasks (business value x urgency) during their planning.

      Like 2
  • James Long said:
    For me it made me feel that perhaps I was wrong in some way.

     No way, you are not wrong! As said earlier I am also one of the people who has the same issues and only hope that NEEO does something with the criticism.

    Even the effort & time you and e.g. Klaus Grosser take to write down stuff should be valued more than it now does I get the feeling. I also am not able to use NEEO in the short to medium term due to its limitations (too bad they are not able to give any ETA for the issues, but well, that was to be expected considering their previous communications) but I still take the time to post items here, e-mail back and forth with support and even talked a couple of times by phone about issues (for I think a total of more than 1 hour), hoping they will get it on the right track asap. 

    Like 4
    • Julian Thank you Julian for your input and feedback to the discussion

      Like
  • Having used my Neeo for a few weeks, I'll add my two cents into this discussion. At this point, I'm not having any specific "issues", but that doesn't mean I'm satisfied.

    Thanks to the crew at Neeo, all my devices are now sufficiently supported and functional that it is possible for me to use the Neeo remote to do everything I need to do. However...

    The sleek little metallic Neeo is sitting on my coffee table right next to a large, clunky, plastic 10-year-old URC MX-850 covered with dozens of buttons. I use the Neeo exclusively now, but my girlfriend still reaches for the URC every time, despite me having shown her multiple times how to use the Neeo. With the URC, every function she would ever need to use is accessible with only one or two button presses. Her ease in using the URC is largely because that device's software enabled me to program absolutely any function (or combination of functions) for any device onto any button or screen. In comparison, doing many things on the Neeo remote takes more button pushes and/or swipes, (clearly more than should be necessary). It was time-consuming and complicated for me to learn to program the URC and tweak it for all my devices, but once I did so, it's easy for anyone to pick it up and use it.

    This distinction gets at the heart of my issue with Neeo: the designers apparently focused most of their attention on simplifying its programming, rather than on making its programming powerful enough to simplify its use for any individual user. I don’t necessarily want a remote that’s easiest to program. I want one that’s easiest to use for what I want to do with it.

    To that end, here are the two most important things I think Neeo needs:

    • The complete ability to control the screen and soft buttons. That goes not just for which screens appear (or not) for any given device but also the choice, position, and even size of every single button and/or shortcut on every screen, including what its icon looks like and the ability to edit what its text says. This alone could put nearly every button I frequently use onto a single screen in positions that correspond with how frequently I use them with text that isn’t overly cumbersome so other users in my household can easily figure them out. Because the hard buttons are at the bottom of the remote, I want the soft buttons that I use most frequently to be on the lower part of the screen, so I can reach them without having to adjust the position of my whole hand to reach the upper part of the screen. It doesn’t matter to me whether the folks at Neeo think that my particularly combination and position of soft buttons is common to any other users or even logical to them. What matters to me is that it’s the combination that works best for the way I want to use a remote with the combination of devices that I have.
    • The complete ability to control what the hard buttons do. With so few of those buttons to work with, even one wasted button usage opportunity is too many. For example, I’d love to program the Neeo so that when my TiVo recipe is active, a long press on the OK button acts as TiVo’s Pause/Play toggle. (Somebody else might want it to be the Skip function instead.) And for my Blu-ray player, I’d like a long press on the Menu button to go to the top menu of the disc. (Somebody else might want it to toggle the Info screen.) And so on. It is simply untenable on Neeo’s part to believe that they can anticipate the best usage of these buttons for every user.

    I’ve got a bunch of other wish list items (e.g. IR learning, etc.), but my two points above are what would go farthest in bringing the Neeo closest to my goal of usefulness. I am aware that some of these things are coming in a future firmware update, but I’d be surprised if that update gives me the full degree of control I’m asking for. Go ahead and surprise me Neeo.

    Like 5
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Steveeo "the designers apparently focused most of their attention on simplifying its programming, rather than on making its programming powerful enough to simplify its use for any individual user."

      This is spot on. It's exactly the issues I saw my family grappling with in trying to use NEEO and it's exactly why they are not using it right now. They have struggled to get to grips with it and for them it really is not usable now with it's current UI design.

      Thanks so much for commenting - you seemed to have distilled the issue I'm having really effectively so I hope this helps the team develop solutions quickly.

      Like 3
  • Hey Jeff - any chance you could chime in on this topic regarding the similar issues we are describing? Will NEEO reconsider providing some ETA's regarding the promised updates? Would be good to hear your comments on this, Many thanks

    Like 1
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      James Long 

      I read your response and appreciate your feedback. Nothing that you posted was taken harshly. I can feel your passion to get this working.

      With that being said, I'm not going to sit here and tell you why this or that was part of the initial campaign and changed during the development. I fully trust our team that made all the decisions related to that. I come from a billion dollar company who had very similar issues as NEEO early on and now are one of the biggest success stories in the IoT world.

      Being with NEEO for about two months now, I don't think I have ever seen a company fix issues as quickly as we (NEEO) do and continue to do so. Some updates take longer because more effort is involved and would make more sense to pull devs away to fix a list of things vs one thing. For example, some things may seem like a quick fix but in reality, they are not and require more work. So then you are faced with a decision, do we pull devs from working on this which is more important in the long run to fix this or do we wait so they can fix more than one issue (hope the way I explained it makes sense).

      I have also learned that providing timeframes to folks is never a good idea either, deadlines can be missed for a variety of reasons as things can change in a matter of seconds. We can release a beta firmware to our test group and they find a bug that can be fixed but delays the release by a week due to the type of work that the fix requires. We feel it's best to say that we are working on it because we are and it's hard to say exactly when the release will happen.

      As the messages were a bit long here I wanted to check if I have not missed anything. Do you currently suffer some technical issue or is the issue with your system the broken experience due to “stupid devices” and the smart delay? If that is the case the good news is: the solution for that issue is in the works. The team is very passionate to improve your experience. We want every user to have the real NEEO experience. 

      Thanks,

      Jeff Z

      Like 4
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Jeff Thanks Jeff for your reply. You are right, the replies here have become long, particularly as others have posted up their own experiences too. 

      I am hopeful that the Stupid Device and Smart Delay issues will go a long way to improving usability. That was the key thing I identified these as being most likely to be causing my family to have problems. They were really struggling with the usability of the device and commented that they did not find it intuitive. I think it was because of the false flags the stupid device issues brought, as I said in my original post, along with delays where nothing was happening, making them believe something had gone wrong. Fact is, it's been easier to use 5 old remotes than the NEEO which is not what I expected, based on how it was sold to me before receiving it.

      The expectations I had were based purely on what I was told personally by Raphael and from what I read from the monthly blogs. To then be subsequently told that my expectations may never be satisfied, thus somehow laying the blame on me for being unrealistic, was not acceptable by Raphael. The CEPro reviews which he lambasted said the same thing - expectations were high because it was hyped up massively everywhere. I have yet to see any responsibility taken for this which I think would go a long way in reassuring me that I am being listened to and that things can be fixed at NEEO. 

      Like 1
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      James Long I totally understand and agree with what you are saying. From my personal experience, it's customers who are the most vocal that are the most passionate. Just give is a bit more time and if we don't fix it I will personally send you a check to refund you for your NEEO. You can also keep it :). 

      Like 3
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 5
      • Reported - view

      Jeff  Hey Jeff, it's been a good couple of months now. I think I'd like to take you up on the refund. Whilst I have been hopeful about the promised software update, I'm very concerned at the pace of development, despite assurances that this will change moving forward. I would love for my family to start using NEEO if the software fixes come through but reluctantly I think we need to start looking for an alternative until that happens. Therefore the promised refund would now be welcome so I can look at an alternative. As you state that I can keep my NEEO I'd be happy to update my review in the future should the promised fixes come through. Thank you

      Like 5
    • James Long Best of luck with the refund. I hope you get it. My beautiful NEEO is collecting dust right now, having beaten by its ugly sister an £80 Harmony which manages to operate a TV, TiVo box and Apple TV a lot more reliably. Waiting for the long delayed firmware update really before I try to make it work for the 3rd time with the very simple setup I have and if it doesn’t work properly, give up on it for good which will be a shame but as it’s meant to simplify our lives, not complicate and frustrate it, I will have to cut my losses at some stage. Looks aren’t everything. Anyone know when the firmware update is coming?

      Like 3
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view
      Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dillon Moulder This was a one time offer I made to James. If you wish to proceed with a refund, please email support@neeo.com and we can begin the process.

      Thanks!

      Like 1
  • I think the most needed is the IR learning, it should be there right at the start, although I read how Raphael explain, I still think thats the easiest way to fix most of the problem right now. I got the neeo remote week ago, I have a sharp TV, a settop box, a HDMI switch, apple TV and a optoma projector, I think it will be easy when first try to add those devices seen those not any special equipment, at the end I can only add the apple TV and set top box with full function, others just don't have a driver yet, so I come here and ask them to add those other devices and the teams reply fast and add driver in a day as I remember but those driver also just partly work, and we go back and forward for a few days now, and problems are still there, they just don't have the right code...........

    I can add those devices within a sec when using a harmony remote with the IR recording, if the neeo have the same function from the beginning, their team will save so much time to answer question at the forum. As a user, we expect something just work, but I also don't mind to help, like share the IR learning code and upload it to the database, and the team can use those information to improve what they are doing, so everyone have the right code for the device, that will help building a bigger and better database. But right now we just sit there and wait for them to answer, I really hate that situation.

    The best customer service should start at the product development, when the product is well design at both hardware and software side, your customer will just enjoy using it otherthen keep asking question.

    Like 4
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Don Tong 

      I agree with you 100%! Raph and team had a big discussion on the IR learning capability not too long ago and once we can free up our devs from our current priorities we will begin building this feature. 

      Let me know if you have any other suggestions or feedback. 

      Thanks!

      Like
      • Don Tong
      • Don_Tong
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Jeff other suggestion like favourite channel submissions system, so customer can add there channel to your system, wait for a review, then make it public to all user, you know we got thousand of channel around the world and some Asia area have there own local channel that will never show up at neeo if user don’t tell them to, so more easy for both user and developers by using a self submit system.

      Like
    • Jeff this feature already exists in some form though right? It doesn't need to be built from scratch? 

      Like
    • Jeff Hey Jeff, I don't know if this would be possible but it would be handy if the commands learned by the user could be sent back to NEEO.  That way the NEEO database grows and the workload for NEEO shrinks a bit.  Also the community gets involved which, to me, is a good thing.  Of course, given the 1-way nature of an IR command, it would need to involve some kind of approval system by NEEO or other members of the community with the same device.

      Like 3
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Don Tong I will ask our team about this as I feel this is also a great idea. I can totally see this as a long-term solution to the IR learning capability. It may also be something we have in our backlog, I just don't know about it yet lol.

      Thanks!

      Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      James Long That I am aware of, we do this manually at the moment but I will check with our team to see if it's in the backlog.

      Like 1
    • Jeff thank you. I think I was mistaken in believing that this had already existed previously but had been taken away for the time being.

      Like
  • Jeff said:
    Just give is a bit more time and if we don't fix it I will personally send you a check to refund you for your NEEO. You can also keep it

    Jeff Does this now mean that it is company policy to issue a refund where functionality does not work as advertised or suggested, and this will be done without any expectation on the end user to return the hardware? Please confirm. I hope that refund is by a company cheque (check) rather than one associated with your personal bank account, as that really would be going beyond the call of duty as a NEEO employee! 😉

    Like 1
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Dillon Moulder 

      It’ll be under my name or the companies 😇. Either way, we’re going to make you guys happy. 

      Like 3
    • Jeff oh it’s almost Christmas and I have a long list of stuff that makes me more happy than I already am. 🤣 

      Like 3
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Niels de Klerk Jeff I just picked this up. It's certainly a very nice gesture, thank you. I appreciate your efforts in getting this resolved and feel more confident with your current handling of the issues than I was with the previous attempts. I guess you're Head of Customer Experience for a reason. PS I take cash or bitcoin 😉

      Like 1
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      James Long What about Ripple? 🤗

      Like
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      Jeff Hey Jeff, any news on the software and firmware updates? Is there a way you can notify people as I'm not sure everyone is going to keep checking back?

      Like 4
      • sagdusmir
      • sagdusmir
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 6
      • Reported - view

      James Long Jeff  I second this. Some sort of roadmap would be very nice, I stopped using my NEEO (did not even bother breaking the seal on my second one) some time ago. I am ready to give it another try if some major changes have been made to the software. At the moment I might be able to replace only one of my existing remotes with NEEO...but this would give me a lot of Devices ON/OFF pain. I really hope this will work for me in the near future – currently It does not work for me at all. Great quality hardware. Software needs some work.

      Like 6
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      James Long  sagdusmir Hey! Sorry for the late response on my end guys. I have been terribly sick and barely getting back in the thick of things. 

      I have some good news and I have some bad news. Bad news: I made a mistake by informing you folks that the next release will feature the ability to re-arrange recipe screens. The good news: We have a MUCH better solution to the way we handle stupid devices. I don't personally own any, but this is a top priority with NEEO and it's full steam ahead to get the next release out. I will see if  Patrick can possibly provide me with a changelog of some sort to share after the release has gone out, but we can't share a list of whats to come in each future release. Posting a changelog of what was fixed AFTER each release is not a bad idea. 

      Thanks!

      Like
    •   Jeff hope you're feeling better. Thanks for the update but it doesn't really tell us WHEN this is going to happen. I've been pretty patient. It's been over a month of having NEEO without being able to use it as it was claimed. I'll be glad to fix the Stupid Devices issue but what about the Smart Delay? When will we be able to rearrange the screens to use them as we want to without having to swipe around 5 screens?

      I'm really not trying to be awkward but it's kind of ridiculous that basic functionality is still as it is. I haven't seen any improvements released during my time of owning a NEEO. Others are posting up their own reviews after a few weeks with similar comments.

      It all comes back to expectations. They were set so high before release that it was almost impossible to meet them - that has been covered MANY times already. Now though there are no expectations - we don't know when things are coming, it seems like things that were meant to be coming now won't be (re-arranging screens) - it's a bit of a mess.

      I'm trying to use NEEO on and off when I have control of the TV and AV gear at home but it just is not a reliable replacement for my remotes. I mean last night I wanted to go from watching a DVD to watching our IPTV box. I pressed the home button, pressed the IPTV button and it switched (after more than 30 seconds because of the Smart Delay issue) to the correct input. However, the DVD player remained on and recipe running. I then pressed home again and the power button next to DVD and it switched off the DVD player but also the TV and soundbar. So then I closed the IPTV recipe (through multiple stupid warning screens) and restarted it (more than 30 seconds) to get everything working again. This isn't intuitive. There is probably a better way to do what I wanted without having the wrong things turning on and off but how am I supposed to know this? There are no instructions, the way NEEO guides you through the process via it's UI causes the above to happen. If it's happening to me it sure as hell is going to happen when my family try to do the same. Guess what I had to do? Put NEEO in its cradle and use the old remotes.

      Come on guys, this cannot be classed as an anywhere near acceptable user experience.

      Like
  • James Long Perfectly written and I couldn't add a single word, I'm sharing exactly the same experience. (also the reason I have not yet published my review of NEEO on my blog as it wouldn't help anybody to review beta-hardware. 

    What I want to add regarding the backlit keys: While I in the meantime indeed can use NEEO with closed eyes, thing is, to me, backlit keys LOOK way more high-end than non-lit keys. 

     

    Raphael The thing with the stupid devices (e.g. my SAT box has only power toggle, no discrete commands) is: I used three generations of Harmony Remotes and NEVER had any problem with any stupid device before. Sure, some didn't switch on occasionally but a simple tap on "help" resolved this. Far from perfect yet better then NEEOs current implementation. And just as James and Dillon mentioned later, I'm also not all that happy with the "stupid device" naming. After all especially non-tech-savvy users will not understand at all what this is about.

    For me, right now, family is visiting. And sadly I know NEEO will stay in the dock for that time as my Mother in law (though iPad, iPhone, Mac user) will not be able to use NEEO. Interface is English and she wouldn't get past the stupid stupid devices screen (pun intended), it's simply not good nor fair nor logic to make users "pay" for a device manufacturer not having put discrete commands in their devices. Cause that's what universal (smart) remotes are for: Fix these kinda things.

    Like 6
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      Holger Schmidt Thanks for adding your thoughts. Glad to know again that I'm not the only one with these issues. It would be helpful if the guys responded about when updates are coming because my last comment hasn't been replied to ( Jeff  ), it's been another 2 weeks of remote ownership without being able to use it and I have no idea when these fixes "I will like" are going to be coming. It would also have been helpful to not close down the time frames thread but that remains closed to comments despite a promise it could be reopened - I left that decision to Raphael so take from that what you will...

      My parents were away for a week so I did have a go at making NEEO a replacement for the 5 remotes. Unfortunately it simply isn't ready in it's current form to do that, for the reasons I listed above. I'm still having to reach for other remotes to fix things. My dad asked me on his return "can we use this remote yet, have they fixed it?"...

      I have another thread open about a specific device called Dreamscreen and it's actually pretty exciting to see that you can build drivers for these devices - there is so much potential. Niels has been really helpful on that one and if it wasn't for my limited time and knowledge I would try and get things working myself but it's a bit pointless at the moment as we aren't going to be using NEEO for the time being.

      It's been exactly 1 month of ownership today - NEEO remains unused by my family. I'm so disappointed guys 

      Like 3
    • Holger Schmidt your touching something there. I just passed on the second pledged unit to a friend and not being too good at English he had a more than required difficult tiome setting the thing up (leave alone understanding the logic behind NEEOs, erm, logic, when in use).

      So, Jeff , Patrick , Emily : how about releasing a list/spread sheet with keywords for the interface and app plus languages required, so we, the community could jump in helping to push localisation ahead. Honestly, for a product like this this should be an expected feature but acknowledging the pace NEEO has been moving in the past and all the things still to scratch of the list, I don't see NEEO having much of ressources to do this themselves alone.

      Like 2
  • Jeff said:
    Posting a changelog of what was fixed AFTER each release is not a bad idea. 

    Not a bad idea? I would have expected nothing less, this is the most basic of basics when you are involved in the sort of process NEEO is now in when the software is in its initial release.

    Also, I cannot understand that NEEO is not able to give some sort of roadmap of functionalities/bugs you are working on, this keeps people interested and in the loop. Please be honest, it is not that you can't (because you obviously know what you are working on yourselves) but for some unknown reason you do not want to share it with the community. You fail to see this works really counter-productive because as said people loose their interest when they have no idea when 'their' bug will be solved or 'their' feature becomes available. And yes, we understand that this cannot be guaranteed but please remember that we are still here after that terrible KS campaign of 2,5 years so give us some credits... 

    Like 5
  • Julian said:
    Also, I cannot understand that NEEO is not able to give some sort of roadmap of functionalities/bugs you are working on, this keeps people interested and in the loop.

     Yeah, this. It's ridiculous to not have any road map given. I'm using a number of products and pieces of software and the vast majority say what has been changed in a previous update, what is coming in future updates and when (roughly) those updates can be expected. NEEO's strategy is not normal 

    Like 1
  • James Long said:
    the DVD player remained on and recipe running.

     Hi James,

    That is odd behavior that the DVD recipe remained running,  I have not experienced that, and normally the recipe should shut off, so I can't help with that, but am guessing it's a stupid device limitation if this always happens.  However, the DVD player staying on is normal for how NEEO currently handles power state.  To fix this for your IPTV, or any other recipe, you can edit the IPTV power on recipe to include a "send power off command to DVD".  The same would apply for any device you want to shut down switching between any and all recipes.    

    Like
    • Dave H Thanks for that, I have no idea why it happened either. I don't think it's a stupid device issue as the player is not classed as stupid. The only stupid device is the soundbar but that didn't need to be changed anyway. I may go in and edit the recipes as you suggest but don't really want to have to do this for every recipe where I switch from DVD/Blu Ray to something else. 

      To be honest, I think I'm just going to have to wait to see what the software update brings.

      Jeff still no news on an ETA? Will the Smart Delay issue also be fixed?

      Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      James Long Hi James!

      The next release is still in the testing. No definitive timeframe, but possibly 2 weeks. Again, this is my personal guesstimate and things can change, could be sooner could be longer. At the moment we're focused on implementing a better way to handle stupid devices. Once I know the smart delay is in the testing phase, I will update you.

       

      Thanks,

      Like
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 3
      • Reported - view

      James Long It's been almost 6 weeks since firmware 0.47.9 was released, so it would appear that the NEEO team have opted for a release schedule of infrequent big updates with multiple fixes rather than one of frequent small updates with fewer fixes. Under the current circumstances, I think the majority of end users would prefer the latter! 😣

      Like 3
    • Dillon Moulder my experiance (since februari) is that the releases sometimes follow up fast and sometimes have some weeks in between. I haven’t seen any update take this long before but I also haven’t seen an update this huge either. I’m not so sure that infrequent updates are what they have opted for. 

      Since the KS release a lot of feedback has been posted here on PN and my guess is that they want to include a huge chunk of this in the coming firmware.

      Like 1
    • Niels de Klerk yes, it seems they packed quite some efforts into this forthcoming update.

      Then, reading in between the lines it seems confirmative that the focus being on the "stupid devices" issue by customizing/arranging/hiding screens but neither Bluetooth nor extended Hue support will be included - so it's not going to be "1.0". Still, hopefully big enough - and.... soon™

      (read, still 2017, which will be kind of hard anyway, as we know, they understandably want to spent the holidays with their families, too).

      Like 1
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Klaus Grosser Dillon Moulder Unfortunately rearranging screens was confirmed by Jeff as not being part of the next update, just the stupid devices handling. Also appears that a smart delay fix won't be a part of this instead requiring separate testing.

      Niels de Klerk from what I can gather, a stupid device fix is the main thing being covered in the next update. I hope you are right and they address a lot of the issues being brought up by people but we are looking at 2 months of ownership (could be more according to Jeff) before one item is potentially fixed. 

      I'm at a bit of a loss as to understand it all to be honest. I hardly have the most complex use case for NEEO to control but it doesn't seem even ready for that. I admire and envy those who have it working well for them - I would love to have that deep knowledge and understanding of the device that means I can get to grips with things but it still wouldn't fix the issues for the average user (e.g. my family). I guess I'll end up being written off, as Raphael said recently to me, as someone who they can never please but it's not for lack of me trying to get this working and interacting here on Planet NEEO! I did say during the campaign that I would hold NEEO to account for all their promises if I needed to (as well as praising them if deserved) - I intend to continue to do so.

      Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Niels de Klerk Thanks for your insight. As a participant of the beta program, you’ll have a better idea of just how huge this next firmware update is. I’m always wary of huge updates, as they take longer to QA and invariably introduce a raft of new unforeseen defects. Smaller point releases preceding a larger update often reduce the scope for such issues. I can only guess that the Product Manager, Product Owner and Scrum Master at NEEO are all in favour of larger infrequent updates!

      Like 1
    • Klaus Grosser stupid devices is possibly  the most discussed topic here on PN. So it would be in their best interest to share that. This will definitely not be the only change. 

      Like 1
    • Dillon Moulder off course a bigger code change incease the possibility to include more bugs. I’m sure they know what they are doing. About frequency of firmware updates I can’t say anything more useful, it’s not like we have conference calls or something 🤣 not a bad idea actually 😜. I can say however what I’ve seen in the past. And as soon as it’s 1.0 everything might change at that point. We’ll have to see. 

      Like 3
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Niels de Klerk thanks for your insight as always. You mention v 1.x of the software/firmware. Seeing as we are on 0.47 (I think?) now after 2.5+ years is there any way to know how far off a v 1.0 is? Will we jump from 0.47 to 0.80 or are we talking about 0.48 then 0.49 and so on? One way is clearly a potentially VERY long path...Does 0.47 suggest we are a long way for a v 1? I genuinely don't know about these things

      Quick addition. Wouldn't NEEO need a v1 before releasing it to retail anyway? That is, general customers (e.g. like my family) won't want to be on previous v1 beta type software right?

      Like 1
    • James Long I think, these question can only be answered from someone within NEEO, you can endlessly drive the Version number until you have 0.49.012345637467654856, but i don't see this coming from Neeo. I think Version 1.0 is the promised (or as closesed as it can be) from the KS campaing. And if the include new features (big thinks like bluetooth or others) then you will see a big jump forward. If you see small steps, the main reason would be publishing bug fixes and small issues.

      Like 1
    • Markus Mahr good explanation. Version numbers don’t tell much other then a reference to what software you are running I’m afraid.

      Like
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Markus Mahr One is not exclusive of the other; you should see both.

      Like
    • Dillon Moulder I see both, but normally programmers like the version 1 for their first and most fully software. In this release, there is everything in what was mentioned, or think of in the prestart.

      Like 1
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Markus Mahr thanks for that, based on what isn't in the software so far it appears that v 1.0 is still some way off. I am not bothered about all the functionality that was advertised - I just want the basics working properly. So perhaps I am not so fussed about a v 1.0 that offers control for a load of things I don't have. 

      Unfortunately I don't see anyone from NEEO answering this. The policy to not provide any meaningful detail or time frame on updates is just a continuation of the policy not to update on shipping time frames from the campaign. Raphael and the team are convinced that this "silence is the best policy" strategy is the one to use despite users now having the devices in hand. I have gone from not knowing when I might have the NEEO to not knowing when I might be able to use it as promised. It's a terrible strategy and one that is doing them plenty of damage with backers, now their initial customers. People are literally going out and buying Harmony remotes or going back to them now they've seen what NEEO can't do. There are a number of posts saying this.

      Like 2
    • James Long I don't know what you Setup is or what devices you use or u like to use, but the Team behind NEEO is going to implement more and more parts to the software. So basically the Hardware is capable of many nice and new parts, but currently the software makes the limit. But Software can be changed and made better, all you need is time an capacity. The Hardware naver can be changed once it is by the customer (except you trade it).

      I can pull in Raphael and Patrick or Jeff and Emily , maybe someone will answere to this Topic, but Jeff allready did so, and the main reason for such a place (in my eyes) is not the company reply to each and every inout, but the other members do.

      But also i know, that (at least) Patrick and Raphael like to hear and read such feedbacks. They also discuss many of them internaly as many times observed by me. In fact, they don't reply instantly, but you can be sure, that somebody of the Team allready read this Topic!

      Like 1
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Markus Mahr thanks for that but no need to pull in those guys. I already had a direct contact from Raphael which was a disaster and I'd prefer to deal with the customer service pros (Jeff etc) than be hassled like I was before. Lost a lot of respect for him and NEEO based on how he behaved. Know they're reading this too. Not convinced they're going to change company policy to provide better update time frames but I can hope. My experience with NEEO has not been a good one and I'm just glad to know I'm not alone in this (despite Raphael previously trying to indicate as much).

      Like 1
      • Alex T
      • Alex_T
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dillon Moulder unless they chose a release schedule of infrequent small updates with little fixes...

      Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Alex T The blog documents two firmware updates since the product was shipped; make of that what you will! Of course, there will have been several driver updates, but since they don't seem to have any accompanying release notes it's not clear what drivers have been updated and when. CES 2018 ends today, so with the NEEO team back to work next week, perhaps the promised "huge" firmware update will be released shortly. Excited? 😉

      Like 1
  • James Long Thanks for this very well written post. I can say that I have exactly the same impression after using NEEO for just one day. However, my initial situation is different: I already own a unified remote (Philips Pronto), which is satisfying my needs at a very high level (let's say 95%). However, as the product line was discontinued in 2010 by Philips and my current remote shows some signs of aging (and relying on IR only), I was hoping that NEEO could be a good candidate to replace my old remote. Well, it WAS my hope... It seems I have to take the hard way for another expensive professional solution (Crestron, RTI etc.). Too bad.

    I have no experience with battery life so far, but there is one thing, that is absolute key for unified remotes: Minimizing screen usage. The majority of commands should be done through the hard buttons with the display turned off (a backlit and about four extra buttons would be useful then). I use the display on my current remote only for activity jumps (to use another device) or for very rare functions on an activity. The display on the NEEO remote on the other hand, is always on when using the remote and it takes forever to turn off again.

    Like 5
    • Pink Camera yep. Really nice crafted HW with some minor issues (missing some extra buttons and backlit), but the SW is a disaster. Maybe we should send them a copy of ProntoEditPro?

      Like 3
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 7
      • Reported - view

      Pink Camera Alex Reusch thanks for contributing. I find it interesting to read about other experiences from people who own competitor products already. From what I can gather so far, and it pains me to say so, NEEO is not beating the competition - whether it's Logitech, Philips or Creston. They have the potential to but unless they listen to the hints they're being given or to the community when it asks for updates ETA's they're going to struggle.

      I think there are people on team NEEO who are listening to users for sure and are desperate for this to be a success. Unfortunately from my own correspondence with the person that matters (Raphael) I think the blinkers are on in areas that are critical to NEEO's success. He is convinced that this is a game changer right now and his obsession with going after people who criticise the product (me with ridiculous emails and CEPro with his lengthy follow up post) shows to me that he isn't capable of taking criticism positively. It must feel awful to receive criticism but those who make a success of things in this world are the ones who face the challenges head on. It's natural to feel disappointment when people say things about your "baby" but this is a product meant for the mass market and it's success depends on people separating themselves from their feelings.

      This is where I fear NEEO is in most danger and I hope the team in general are able to recognise the need to produce updates, information and support to the community in a much better manner than was handled by Raphael during the campaign.

      Like 7
    • James Long what really kills me is, that I cannot replace my current remote solution, that is 15-20 years old and the software has not been updated since 2010... The "revolutionary" NEEO does not even come close to it. It's that bad.

      Like 2
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Alex Reusch I will have to defend NEEO here a bit - it's not bad in my opinion. It's just certainly not what was promised or expected. I honestly thought I would sail through using NEEO because I didn't need it to do anything spectacular - I said this all along through the campaign. I definitely thought there would be niggles but perhaps more for people with more complex use cases. I was really surprised at the state of software and UI choices as it had been in beta testing for a long time prior to release. I measure the software on the success of its usability i.e. can I put it in my dad's hands and expect him to pick it up straight away? We are a long way from that right now unfortunately.

      Like 1
    • Alex Reusch you’re comparing a remote from a huge company with many years of development with a remote that is build by a small startup and just released.

      there is a good pace in development (especially related to the size of the dev team) and you will soon notice they’re listening well to their community. Interacting with a company so close as with Planet NEEO is a big plus over any other solution currently out there because it means things can only change for the better, both for us and them.

      I know that they’re working on the hot topics and I’ve seen the first results of that. I’m not allowed to say to much as things might change or don’t make it to public but I can hint on the improvements to come.

       

      the missing features that where announced on the KS campaign are still sure to come. They haven’t yet fulfilled all their software promises but I’m atleast happy they have shown they can deliver their promises (although late) as proven by the hardware. Hardware can’t be patched so I’m glad they have chosen to focus on that when they needed to and can now fully focus on the software.

      Like 1
      • sagdusmir
      • sagdusmir
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Niels de Klerk I don’t know what software features will be released in 2018. But I think Neeo has to generate some cashflow in 2018 and they will have to sell their product to regular customers that will judge the product by the marketing promises the moment they unbox their remote and might not be willing to wait some months for missing features to be functional / usable. I really wish Neeo the best and hope they will be able to make a profitable businesses out of their company. 

      Otherwise we all will own some pretty cool paperweights!

      Like
    • sagdusmir Luckily they thought about that proven the nice weight in the charger dock 😀

      Like 2
  • sagdusmir said:
    they will have to sell their product to regular customers

    There seems to be a misconception that the product can’t yet be bought by the general public. Anybody with internet access and a credit card can “pre-order” direct from the NEEO website. Based on a few comments I’ve read on Planet NEEO, at least some of those “pre-orders” seem to have been shipped recently. If so, NEEO have already processed orders and taken payments from “regular customers”.

    Like 1
      • sagdusmir
      • sagdusmir
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dillon Moulder I am well aware of the available pre-orders and I did not say „start selling“. :)

      Like 1
  • In a 4 device setup consisting of Samsung TV, Virgin Media Tivo Box, Apple TV and Hue lights, I haven’t been able to get it to work smoothly without having to reach to the dedicated remotes to do simple functions like turn off or turn on the Tivo box for example which I haven’t been able to figure out if and how Neeo does it for example. So having seen the chance to order the Logitech Harmony Ultimate for only £80 at Amazon I just ordered that. I want to see how quickly and easily that will give me the truly single remote convenience I want. Not giving up on NEEO though, it will be a nice project to figure it out eventually, has a lot that I like about it still. If Harmony Ultimate doesn’t deliver it will be returned. If it does deliver my wife and family will appreciate it until I solve the Neeo puzzle. Most of it is probably me though.

    Like 2
    • Altan Kayaalp I’m fairly certain your setup should not provide you with any issues. Could you please create a new post and tag me in it then I can come over to that post and help you out without cluttering this thread.

      Like 1
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