It's Been a Week - My Thoughts and Impressions - UPDATE 27/01

*Warning - this has turned into a long review...*

After 2.5 years, I finally picked up my NEEO here in Iceland on the 15th November. Some of you may remember I have been quite an active voice in the comments section and I have had a variety of interactions with the team over the years - some good, some bad. It was therefore great to finally have the product, but as I've mentioned in other posts, my circumstances have changed a lot in the years since backing it, so my excitement levels weren't as high as they had once been. This is purely because my plans for an IOT connected house are on the back burner following an international relocation. That said, I did want the NEEO to replace the current 5 remote set up in our family living room. There are 4 of us using the set up - me, my wife and my parents. In order for this to be a success we all have to feel comfortable using the NEEO in favour of the 5 remotes. We are controlling a TV, soundbar, Roku, IPTV box and blu-ray player - nothing complicated.

As others have said, the initial impressions are very good. The packaging and hardware certainly indicate an extremely high quality device. The un-boxing experience is good. I didn't really need the quiet room and a favourite song to get enjoyment out of it...(those who have received their NEEO will understand this) but all the same it was a nice un-boxing.

I'm fairly technically minded when it comes to setting new things up. Setting up NEEO was fine. I plugged in the brain to my router and followed the instructions on the app to pair the brain and remote. I also updated the firmware without any issues.

Adding devices is relatively straightforward. I have posted some of the issues I have found with my devices in other posts. I was impressed that my obscure IPTV was added very quickly by the team. Unfortunately, my pretty new and certainly not "stupid" LG OLED TV is classed as stupid. The team is looking into this so hopefully they'll have a fix.

Using the iOS app to get things working is pretty easy. There are some extra taps and steps required for some parts of recipes which I wouldn't describe as intuitive. For instance I cannot find how to add a "Show Controls" function for some of my devices when editing a recipe. I'm sure someone will tell me on here but this will lead to a point later on in this post.

Once the recipes and devices were added I picked up the remote. Pressing "TV" to use the TV starts the recipe and brings me to the "Stupid Devices" messages. I have posted my thoughts on this already but I'll say again - I do not like this implementation at all. It provides false flags in my system and encourages you to toggle devices that do not need to be toggled. For me, I can tell if the soundbar is on/off. For my parents, they don't necessarily know and follow blindly what NEEO suggests. This results in inadvertent power toggling or input switching which is confusing for them. Sure they can learn this but it is far from intuitive. I get why it was done and I appreciate Raphael has said this is being looked at and potentially changed, but it isn't one of the things that "just works". 

I actually find the recipe screens not very useful on the remote itself. The first 2-3 swipes are usually "Stupid Device" messages and then it may be another 2-3 default page swipes (e.g. favourites, coloured buttons) before you reach the area where you can add your own shortcuts. There is no way to edit the order of these pages and unfortunately I haven't found any of the default selected pages useful for my use cases. I'm sure some might but I haven't.

I have therefore been mainly using just the hard buttons. They work as they are supposed to but I will echo others who have said that they would like back-lighting and customisable hard buttons. I know NEEO have claimed in the past that they feel the design on these would have failed if you had to have lighting to show you the buttons (i.e. it should be natural). Well I'm sorry it's not. I'm sure in time new muscle memory will form but in a dark room (it's winter in Iceland so always dark) I need to look at what the buttons are. As do others who are learning the remote for the first time. My parents are not just going to pick up the remote and know what the buttons feel like and start pressing. They are going to put on their reading glasses, spend an age squinting at the buttons and then slowly press them all to see what happens. It would therefore help if they were lit!

We all also need to know that in my Roku recipe for example, pressing the "menu" button takes us to the Roku homescreen and pressing "home" takes me to the NEEO remote homescreen. This is the opposite of the Roku remote system - not a big deal but something that needs to be learned. Unfortunately I have watched first hand the confusion this can cause with my parents navigating Roku, pressing home on the NEEO and then finding themselves in a different menu on the remote. They then press "Roku" to get back in and it runs the recipe from scratch, often toggling my "stupid devices" on or off or changing inputs.

To try and counter this I have edited a number of the recipes to remove some of the unnecessary "Stupid Device" commands being sent but it's still not solved all of them.

Similarly, switching recipes is currently a chore. I have outlined this in my issues post but in short, the "Smart Delay" feature, and known bug, means that switching from watching something on Roku to IPTV takes an absolute age because I have had to add a 15 second delay to the recipes to allow for the time it takes to TV smart features to load when it is switched on. It isn't a big deal when switching everything on for the first time but when trying to swap between different devices when things are on, the delay is confusing and you are left wondering if things are working correctly. I know this will get fixed but right now it makes the remote very frustrating to use. My family all moan how slow it is.

I will say that navigating around is decent when everything is set correctly for each device. I would say 90% of the use has been via the hard buttons on the remote. The currently state of the software design has rendered the touchscreen as something I'm reluctant to use, other than to choose the recipe/device.

Other impressions. The battery life is not going to last the months that were claimed. I had fully charged it the other day, took it out of the cradle and left it on the side for the day, without using it. The charge was at 89% when I picked it up. 11% a day is fine but it's not the months long claims we had. It doesn't matter because it can just sit in its cradle.

The support on Planet NEEO is good. It does however bring me back to a point I made above and that is that using NEEO requires a lot of learning and troubleshooting in these forums. Someone will no doubt tell me how to get the "show controls" command into the recipe which is great. However, it should be obvious already, without having to place a post here. Looking at posts here it is clear that people are having a multitude of issues or questions that need answering. It is almost exclusively all software related too. This is good, because it means it can likely be fixed. But it is also not what we all believed we were getting when the NEEOs were delivered.

This leads me to a point which may not be very popular. I feel that unfortunately NEEO have over-promised and under-delivered and right now we are beta testers for the remote. Hear me out before you jump on me here.

Throughout the campaign and the many monthly updates we were given, we were constantly reassured, in some form or another, that this was a "game changer" or that it "just works". A huge number of superlatives were used throughout every post to describe how great everything was. Award shows were featured prominently as were NEEO's many appearances at trade shows. Everything was painted as amazing and ground breaking, despite the delays. In private emails and conversations with me, it was the same story. I would be amazed by this device and the potential and if only I could see it for myself I would understand how great it all was. This message was repeated over and over to backers over the 2.5 years and therefore the expectations were set very high by Raphael and the team. Having now had the remote for a week I am sorry but it is not what I was promised. NEEO, you set the expectations at a level that were almost impossible to meet and unfortunately I feel they've been missed by quite a long way.

This product is not intuitive to use out of the box. If an average person bought this from a store and wanted it to "just work" I think they would be disappointed. I have actually tested this with my family and can see how hard it is for them to use. It feels like a beta product and that we are acting as beta testers for NEEO right now. I don't personally mind this too much - I would prefer to have had a choice in the matter but I am willing to provide input to improve things for my benefit. I'm pretty convinced however that people would have been expecting things to be a lot further on than where they are and there would be plenty who do not want to have to troubleshoot through things. Someone else posted for example that it felt like we were being used to populate the IR database and I can understand this sentiment too. 

I understand and applaud that improvements are being made and Raphael posted an update himself regarding the issues I was having. However, if you read through, it's a lot of the similar superlatives. The "awesomes", the "powerful", the "better than the competition" comments - I'm sorry Raphael, I don't mean to nit pick like this but it just feels a bit empty now. You promised so much to me personally and to all the backers and I just don't think you've hit the marks you set for us. I get that you believe in this and want to develop things successfully but it may be time to pause with the "we are the best" type comments and focus on what needs to be done to ensure this doesn't fail. I am really impressed with the service so far on Planet NEEO but it makes me very nervous for the company that so much has to be fixed on a product which is now technically available to customers. Similarly so many of the promised features (hand recognition and other product integrations) are not available. This doesn't affect me but I'm sure others would be annoyed by this greatly.

Look, I don't underestimate the huge undertaking required to match hardware and software seamlessly either. But I would point out that my expectations for how well NEEO would seamlessly work were set by you during the campaign. I think it was a big mistake because my genuine first week impressions are of slight disappointment. Even though I didn't necessarily think things would be perfect, it was hard not to expect more based on how you sold it all to us.

Perhaps NEEO offers some solid competition to the likes of Logitech in its current state. If so, that is not to be sniffed at and it is a great achievement. It is not the replacement wonder product that was promised for the last 2.5 years. As things stand, my NEEO is sat charging next to me in my computer room as it isn't ready to replace the 5 remotes in my very normal/average set up. I look forward to the updates that will surely come but I feel strongly that I need to post this today in the hope that it provides some benefit to the team. I would urge everyone at NEEO to reconsider the communication strategy that markets everything with a superlative. I would also encourage a little introspection - the confidence that Raphael has in NEEO is certainly necessary but I think has sometimes bordered on, dare I say, arrogance, that we would all be amazed by our NEEO's. It's great to have a leader who has genuine belief in their product but this would have been better off being somewhat undersold at launch giving us a much more realistic expectation of the status of the software in particular.

I write this (now very long) review with the best of intentions: To describe an average user's first experiences and impressions on the remote based on 2.5 years as an active backer of the project on Kickstarter and regular communicator with the team. My criticisms are supposed to be constructive and I hope are taken in this way. I appreciate I have laid blame here on Raphael in particular but I hope you can understand where I am coming from. You asked us and me personally to believe in you and NEEO and therefore I think it is fair for me to say if I feel let down and why I do.

Please NEEO address both the software and communication issues before one of the big tech blogs gets hold of a remote for review. I don't think the review would be good at this stage and this is not what NEEO needs right now. I wish you all the best and will continue to look forward to being able to use my remote in the (hopefully) near future.

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  • Many thanks @Niels de Klerk, will take you up on that if you don’t mind as having played with the recipes for so long I don’t know what more I can do to get it working smoothly. I will initially use the limited time I have to see how successful I get with the Logitech though which should be arriving later today. There’s pressure to deliver a working solution fast at home. By the way you’ve been amazing throughout the whole KS campaign and now. Thank you and Merry Christmas.

    Like 1
  • My Logitech experience was surprisingly easy. Everything works  in a way which truly rid me of 3 dedicated remotes so far after a quick, reliable and intuitive setup procedure over their app. Additional bonuses are better Hue controls and actual Nest support both of which will hopefully come to Neeo. Importantly I have high confidence that I can easily and reliably add more devices, run cross-functional recipes without spending too much time to do so. Not sure why my Neeo setup for my 3 key devices didn’t yield similarly good results but I suspect it might be largely due to lack of power on, power off, toggle power etc functions for some of the devices (most importantly Virgin Media TiVo box (UK)) which Logitech has uses in their custom-made recipes to good effect. Separately having hard buttons help with user experience but i’m hoping Neeo’s more limited button offering will still be sufficient for at least 80% of the time. Even though my needs are now solved to my and more importantly family’s satisfaction in terms of desired functionality, I certainly haven’t given up on my Neeo. I also think like some others that its software has room for improvement still but Neeo’s hardware looks so much better and the screen on Logitech is useable but it is a bit of an eye sore frankly. Likely for the sophisticated user there are/will be many other capabilities that the Neeo offers which probably Logitech don’t but I’m quite far yet from a Niels de Klerk level of sophistication to know and appreciate these. I must admit with the Logitech working as desired there’s less incentive to invest valuable scarce free time in Neeo but it’s a project worth persevering for thanks to the superior hardware. Also I prefer start-ups over big corps and appreciate the caring, attentive service that Neeo owners appear to be getting from the Neeo team re adding missing devices, features. 

    Like 3
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Altan Kayaalp thanks for your comparison thoughts. Based on your experiences with both devices now, would you say that the following is therefore accurate?

      "When you mess with Logitech you will see that we actually beat the current market leader in most disciplines day 1. Maybe in 25 out of 30 and the other remaining pieces are coming in the next releases."

      I too want NEEO to succeed as I don't want to have to invest in another universal system having waited so long. The above statement, however, shows that the team believes that NEEO beats Logitech already. Based on your user experience would you say this is the case? I'm genuinely keen to know so I can decide what to do.

      If this isn't the case then I stand by my previous comments that NEEO need to stop with the grandiose claims that NEEO has everyone else beaten. The posts I have read from those who have now had some time with NEEO and direct comparable experience with competitor devices overwhelmingly suggest NEEO isn't at their level yet. I really hope this is being taken seriously rather than dismissed with the "most people are not having any issues" type of thing I have personally been told.

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      • Julian
      • Julian
      • 2 yrs ago
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      James Long just my 2c, I have got the Logitech Harmony Elite and am sad to say that I had to power down and put away the NEEO because it just could not do the same as my Logitech which stays the main remote for now, in a way that NEEO needs more manual steps in my recipes (mainly due to my 'stupid' cable box) and is not easy to use for the rest of the family.

      I am eagerly awaiting the next firmware release of NEEO to see if that would solve the issues mentioned by many other users of NEEO. But their statement that NEEO is better than Logitech from day 1 is in my view incorrect. But I hope they will get there if their software improves (and hopefully in the short term and not after another 2,5 years...). One thing that I noticed though is that I use the physical transport buttons on the Logitech quite a lot and started to miss them on the NEEO, and that is sadly not solvable by a software upgrade 😕

      Like 1
    • James Long hi there. My NEEO is gonna be in my hands next Tuesday (as I’m on the vacation and FedEx will keep it for me). 16 years home automation specialist here. 

       

      In in my opinion, any company advertising as they’re the best got it wrong or very wrong. That’s the best way to see disappointment among customers. And that just can’t be 100% right, so let’s call it lying. Deviallet comes to mind. 

       

      That said, I’m relatively eager to put the NEEO to the test, and worst case scenario it’s gonna be a nice collectible ;-)

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      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Julian thanks Julian, interesting to read and mirrors what a decent number of others are saying. Weirdly, in my initial review, I hadn't really noticed the software play/pause type buttons as an issue but when I did try and use NEEO for the week my folks were away, I did notice the touchscreen control was a bit laggy - especially so on my Roku. I'd sometimes end up with a double input after the first input didn't seem to register which meant pause/play/ffwd were pressed twice. I haven't noticed any similar issues with the hard button controls.

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      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Marc-Etienne Huneau I'll be very interested to read your comments on NEEO - as you have the 16 years of home automation experience it will be interesting to get your take on it. It does seem that those having most success are those with a deep understanding of NEEO and home automation. Those who seem to be struggling seem to also be the ones looking for pretty simple uses that our families can understand - the current UI and software is making it really difficult for this simple usage in my household. Look forward to hearing from you!

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    • James Long hi James, in response to your question as much as I would love to be able to, I can not say that Neeo beats the Logitech Harmony Ultimate yet, overall or in a majority of different categories that an average user cares most about. What I can confidently say though is that when through software improvements and some education on my side it starts working equally well for me, I’m going to love and use the Neeo a lot more myself. My family is likely another matter though as I suspect they have already gotten used to the Logitech pretty well and the abundance of hard buttons will be more important to them than I.

      Like 2
      • Gavin Lawrie
      • Never, ever, doing another Kickstarter...
      • Gavin_Lawrie
      • 2 yrs ago
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      James Long I've had a couple of Harmony devices, and most recently a Harmony One unit (i.e. just cheap infrared universal control).  I can say with confidence that NEEO is not anywhere as good as a Harmony One yet for our general purpose uses; TV via STB, Apple TV and Fire TVs for video / audio, and internet radio via our AV unit.  The controls are not as natural (the reliance on touch screen only is a pain for video playback control for example), the absence of any ability to customise the system (e.g. setting the order of screens on handset), and the lack of Harmony's "Device" and "Help" menus are all issues we have here.

      Maybe one day, given enough time and investment, the software in the units might work as originally proposed - but right now it would be very difficult to recommend NEEO to anyone.

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      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Altan Kayaalp thanks for that. Interesting to read. My family are not confident using NEEO right now either

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      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Gavin Lawrie thanks Gavin. Seems to be the same story from Harmony users. I must say, I am finding it hard to keep the boundless optimism and enthusiasm that was asked of me more than 6 weeks ago now. Especially when I'm reading a majority of posts that continue to express disappointment and/or that the competitor products remain the best. 

      I'm going to see what the next software and firmware upgrade brings. I expect to be classed (again) as someone who can never be satisfied but the issues clearly lay firmly with NEEO based on what everyone is posting. Keep in mind, the user experiences are from people who have waited up to 3 years to get this remote so I'd suggest there are a lot of patient and understanding people here!

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    • James Long I think you’re right we have all been very patient. As another Harmony user I can honestly say that the Neeo comes nowhere near the functionlity of my 10 year old hardware/software. I personally think that Neeo under invested in the software side of thier product. No one expects full functionality or bug free sw on day one but the current iteration falls so far short of the competition let alone what was promised I can only think that the fixation on producing what is a premium piece of hardware meant that the equally important job of sw dev was sidelined to the detriment of the product as a whole. Hopefully they can pull this back and get some commercial traction but currently it isn’t a product I can use day in day out let alone recommend to anyone else.

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      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Barry Wetherilt thanks Barry, we shall see what the update in January brings. It will have been more than 2 months between updates so I hope it addresses the recurring issues peoples are posting about rather than just one of them with the next update addressing the next one and so on...

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      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Marc-Etienne Huneau Assuming you've already collected your NEEO, would you mind sharing your initial thoughts about the product? Thanks in advance.

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    • Barry Wetherilt I was able to replace my Harmony One without any issues.  Where is it falling short for you?

      Like
    • Dave H not being Barry Wetherilt but sharing his opinion to the minute, I dare to throw in my repeeated 2 cents here:

      "stupid" devices (which partially aren't even stupid but treated such neverrtheless)  = subpar Harmony experience

      missing control of Amazon FireTV = subpar Harmony experience

      lack to control my PS (3) natively = subpar Harmony experience

      lack to control scenes in Philips Hue = subpar Harmony experience

      not able to create recipes without unnneeded mock-up TV = subpar Harmony experience

      unable to power off self created recipes = subpar Harmony experience

      unable to determine devices should stay on after ending recipe = subpar Harmony experience

      Hard to describe a non-Harmony user or somebody having no affected device park but  I could go on and on with minor detauls and even not regarding the lack of promised features that would have put NEEO over Harmony in use but as long these basic shortcomings are not addressed, who cares....

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    • Klaus Grosser Thanks for sharing.  Obviously you are switching from a much newer remote than Barry.  He said  his 10 year old harmony has more functionality than neeo.  This is the specific remote I was inquiring about.  A 10 year old harmony would be the Harmony One, the remote I replaced, so I thought I may be able to help.  This remote could not control Amazon Fire, PS3, Hue, or any RF, Bluetooth, wifi, ZigBee, zwave device.  I believe the Ultimate was Harmonies first remote to support WiFi and Bluetooth.  IIRC, that remote, and their first hub, were released in in the Spring of 2013, less than 5 years ago. If there are no dumb devices involved,  neeo can definitely replace a harmony one.  There appears to be 2 new ways to handle dumb devices in the upcoming firmware release, so hopefully this will solve the largest complaint of neeo.  Having to use the TV in every recipe and lack of power off in custom recipes are acknowledged bugs, and will be fixed sooner or later.  If you want a device to power off when switching recipes (i.e. Bluray) , just add a step to power on portion of other recipes.  Can I ask why and for what task did you create custom recipe(s) for?  Could you add steps to an auto made recipe to accomplish this?  Hopefully neeo will get all of your issues sorted in a timely manor.   Personally, the ability to hide/rearrange screens, customize buttons and add macros as shortcuts to recipes, are the things I am waiting for.  And I just received Hue lights and an echo dot, my first home automation products, over the holidays, so am looking forward to neeo improving the integration of these systems.

      Like
    • Gavin Lawrie   I also own a Harmony One and I agree with James Long that this is an interesting read on 2 points.

      1) The Harmony One retailed for $250 or so when it was released.  Hardly cheap, unless you are speaking of the build quality, and more than what most kickstarter backers paid for their neeo.

      2)The Harmony One is an IR only remote.  It can't control Fire TV, a device you claim works so well with it.

      https://support.myharmony.com/en-us/harmony-experience-with-amazon-fire-tv

      Like
      • Gavin Lawrie
      • Never, ever, doing another Kickstarter...
      • Gavin_Lawrie
      • 2 yrs ago
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      Dave H I'm not sure you read my post.  In it you'll see I know that the Harmony is an IR only controller, and I make no suggestion that it works with FireTV.  I describe differences between the experience of using NEEO and Harmony (e.g. the 'device' and 'help' functions absent from NEEO) make the Harmony preferable for our simple set up (which happens to include a FireTV).  I think it would be great to have a single controller that covered both IR and non-IR control, but there is little sign that this will change: NEEO have promised this function from the outset (which I would remind you is best part of 3 years ago), but as with so many things it is always "coming soon". 

      As for the price comparison, I have no idea what this is meant to impute - but wonder perhaps if you are actually arguing my point from a different angle.  Something like

      "I paid probably about the same for the NEEO as I paid for the Harmony many years ago.  The NEEO is several years newer in design and apparently full of fancy tech, and so I was surprised to find that it is dysfunctional to the point of not being usable even on a simple system like mine, and outclassed as a practical device currently by the Harmony". 

      Is that what you were trying to say?

      Like 2
    • Dave H yes, I am referering to my Harmony Ultimate (updated to Elite just recently) and since Gavin Lawrie mentioned "Apple Tv and FIreTV" I skipped the One part erratically asuming he was as well. Still, even my first harmony 525 and later on Philips SRM7500 controlled my back-then equipment park with no stupid device molestation.

      But I aslo understand and strongly looking forward to the next update and the improvements it might hopefully bring but have adjusted my level of expactations towards NEEO living up to their announcements somewhat - especially since I was hinted that FTV support will be over HDMI CEC only (which renders it unusable for me) and also I may no more than "hide" the stupid device screen - not really what I call te(r)evolutionary evprogress - but I stay alert, ready to be pleasantly surprised when it will be launched soon™. After all, it somehow hurts to have spent the money and after a long wait am not able to enjoy this product as I had hoped and expected to.

      Re power state: I want/require to decide which devoces stay on and which will be powered off per recipe - I have not found a way to do so and if it's possible it's anything than intuitive but will dig more into that hopefully after aforementioned update has brought improvements promising enough to refuel my motivation to unpack NEEO.

      The custom recipes I was trying to create was a) launch my Elipson Planet LW Andy was kind enough to implement an IR driver after I sent my remote to Solothurn. and b) trying to mimic a practical Hue group management.

      Like 1
    • Klaus Grosser Close to the end of the attached thread if I understand Raphael correctly, it sounds as if power toggle support will be added with this firmware update.

      https://planet.neeo.com/t/m2fpkz

      Like
  • Hi,

    I’d say the unboxing and the look and feel of the remote are impressive. Then the experience is a bit underwhelming. The setup was straightforward (I have no dumb devices). 

    Two things : by nowadays standards (apps and stuff) the remote interface lacks bells and whistles. I mean the main screen with the tiny zone icons looks shy. 

     

    Another thing and that’s a biggie : I could not get it to control my sonos. 

     

    So... I got mixed feelings about the remote. The setup is seamless. The remote looks and feels good. It just works. But the Sonos. 

    Like 1
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Marc-Etienne Huneau Thanks for posting this. When you say that you can’t get it to work with Sonos, can you elaborate on what exactly is happening? Which Sonos device do you have?

      Thanks!

      Like
    • Jeff to be fair, i have a complete Savant setup and the sonos is already connected to the Savant “host”. Nevertheless, the sonos app still works. It’s a single connect  

       

      From the NEEO, I have no control. I can see what’s playing. I can’t even pause it, choosing a favorite does nothing. Same with Spotify. 

       

      (Didnt the demos show full control including browsing one’s library ?)

      Like 2
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Marc-Etienne Huneau Seems like you are experiencing something else that we need to look into. I am able to successfully use my Sonos Play 1, access my music library etc.. Along with my Apple Music. Would love to get in touch with you so we can jump on a call and see whats going on. Please DM me.

      Best,

      Like
  • CES has been and gone and despite my best attempts, I cannot see any mention of NEEO in any press or on any news sites - has anyone found any? Where is the buzz and anticipation of this supposed game changing home automation device now that it is in backers hands? Is the team disappointed by the lack of coverage or is this deliberate whilst issues are being ironed out? i.e. you don't want reviews of the current state of the NEEO system?

    I only ask this as I have now had the remote for 2 months with no update (I know one is coming but still) and I'm wondering when NEEO thinks the device will be ready for the general public to use? How long are we, as early adopters (and I believe beta testers), supposed to wait patiently?

    Like 3
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
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      James Long bizarrely I can only find limited reviews/mentions of NEEO anywhere. This one seems to have been updated last year but all it does for me is remind me how far away from the promised device we are - I mean read what NEEO was supposed to be and compare it to what it is today. And apparently it was our fault for having high expectations? Give me a break. I reckon at least 90% of the claimed features mentioned in this article are not in the current device. A painful reminder of what we backed vs what we have today.

      https://www.allhomerobotics.com/the-ultimate-neeo-smart-remote-review/

      Like 3
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
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      James Long It doesn’t take long at all to scrape the internet for all press and coverage of NEEO, and the available material outside of Planet NEEO since the product was shipped is particularly limited. There is little evidence online of interest in the product from trade or the smart home technology community. As much as people seem to want the product to succeed, I honestly think they’ve drawn many of the same conclusions documented in this topic. What exactly is there to be excited about nowadays? I mean, we’re still waiting for the product to meet the original advertised specification and to deliver a feature set equivalent to similar products. I really do hope I’m wrong, but I very much doubt the next “huge” firmware update will mark a seismic shift in the user experience.

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    • James Long Have your found extensive, or any coverage of Savant remotes from CES? Sevenhugs remote which is supposedly shipping in March?  Harmony remotes?  Any remote?  Usually coverage of CES, especially during the show, concentrates on products the public has not seen before.  This is neeos fourth year at the show with the same product, and it has previously been covered on the majority of tech sites.  It is not like this is breaking news.

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      • James Long
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      Dave H where has their coverage from there ever been to be fair? I and others asked every year during the campaign including in the first year. I am not alone in thinking it's strange that there was not a peep about NEEO now that it's available. Surely now it's available this is the year that some coverage would have been pushed? If it's only for new products as you say then why are NEEO even there? They must realise there'll be no coverage for them then?

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      Dave H I don’t think Savant are even trying to develop and market anything other than their Pro solutions nowadays, so I wouldn’t expect to see anything from them. They’ve all but abandoned their attempts to go mass-market. I don’t think Logitech feel compelled to do any trade shows in order to drive sales of their Harmony product line, as it’s already the consumer market leader and their position isn’t really being challenged by any other products at present. 

      Thanks for bringing the SevenHugs remote to my attention. I noticed that they had a very successful Kickstarter campaign too. Having done some reading, their device support at launch is highly unlikely to be any better than that offered by NEEO now.

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      • Steveeo
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      James Long Having just attended CES, I can say that the press people there don't care about products released last year. Their focus is entirely on new and forthcoming new products, and they wouldn't have had any reason to write a word about NEEO. (The situation is the same for any small startup that didn't launch a new product at the show.)

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      Steveeo yeah I understand that I suppose. I don't remember there really even being any NEEO coverage though over the years. I'd say that there is very little coverage in general - reviews or the like - whatever that may mean. I do fear that Dillon Moulder is right and that there simply isn't very much interest in the product. I truly hope the next update fixes the major issues and they can start pushing NEEO on the marketing side - to survive they're going to surely need some more mass market traction which will have to come from write ups on the bigger sites and being displayed in prominent sales locations (e.g. Apple stores). How else is anyone going to hear about it? Plus we need that market uptake if we are going to continue to get updates and NEEO working as promised. It needs to become a viable alternative to Logitech in the eyes of the consumer looking for a general universal remote who has never heard of NEEO from Kickstarter.

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    • Steveeo you're quite right with both aspects here, NEEO surely was no brand, new never seen, ground breaking product on the show floor. And, even worse, what they could show this time clearly wasn't suited to - literally - write home about - as we now know ourselves.

      But that's exactly the point: NEEO wasn't actually "released" last year's CES (or even close to), neither the year before, or at any other occasion NEEO decided to go bragging about a practicaly non-existent product on a very sensitive market. Actually, in regards of general user compliant/mass market ready it even isn't today - still they decided to burn money and ressources as it would be a market ready product today or any time soon - while my perception (and those of others) would be we're lucky to see all promised features completed for CES 2019 - and that's the problem: market awareness is very sensitive and they unfortunately decided to fire all their guns so soon that it will be hard to regain interest which will be very needed to set up against what the competition has to offer.

      Btw. I didn't back Sevenhugs because it already sounded too limited in the campaign - possibly they were just a tad more realistic?

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    • Klaus Grosser James Long Steveeo Dillon Moulder Dave H

      I like to jump in here and maybe also write some of my feelings and thoughts, don't know if you're interessted or like to read, but i'm ok with the fact if you don't!

      To the Shows, i guess they don't get real News about the Product, since it is not available for Public buying. Means, the Press doesn't have any attention to release such a Product to the Public without getting a Hard Date when it is avail on retail or via direct sell. The NEEO Homepage still says the Item is in Presale, and thats what it exactly is (at least in the current state).

      Why are they on the CES and the ISE? Because their booth is an Invitation from the Z-Wave Alliance ( as you can read over here: https://planet.neeo.com/t/h4t8v9/neeo-at-ces ) also they were not listed as exibithor the previous Years. Maybe thats also a fact, why no one writes a lot.

      Also i give you all right if you say, the Product need to be in Retail (or selled by Amazon or others) to get it ready to this way, it is neccessary to get the Software on a basic level with the mentioned control methods. And we all hope, that the features will come quicker and faster. But i also think, we need to see the Issues reported via planet.neeo (during the first useage of the Kickstarter Backers) and this also shows, that there are millions of different Issues and Setups available. To get everything Covered, you need to focus on the biggest ones and if they are cleared, you can work on new features and smaller issues. But (from my personal experience /hint: very less consumer related but lot of Software things/ ) it sometimes is hard to solve big parts fast and good. Therefor the Next Software should be capable of a "big NUT", but hopefully not miss the chance.

      Also attending to Trade shows is allways neccessary for a small company to get in contact with different other companys and also with interessted people from the Industry, therfor i personally don't think, that CES, CEDIA or ISE are the wrong Place to attend. And this are only 3 trade shows in a year, some time needs to be spend.

      Hopefully we will see the guys getting the work up after the CES is finished and they provide the next Software with the announced feature(s) or any big issue stopper.

      I know, that i post, read, help and also provide a lot of replys here, but i still like the Hardware and i'm able to use the remote as it is made for with my Setup. If somebody want an information about my setup, he can visit my profile and, or if liked, write a private massage, or ask me here in the public parts, no big deal for me.

      Also i like the most of the conversations on the Planet and can understand some of the complaints and concerns. But i also know much about the development of Software and features from my normal business work. If you believe me or not, you sometimes don't believe what faults are occuring or reoccuring...

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    • Markus Mahr Very true.  Networking with other companies is why NEEO is at the trade shows.

      2015 https://www.soundandvision.com/content/could-neeo-be-one-smart-home-system-we’ve-been-waiting

      2016 http://www.audioholics.com/universal-remote-reviews/neeo-remote-preview  Marshall from audioholics has posted here on planet neeo, says he has some issues as others do.

      Even if NEEO has sent out review units, which I doubt they have, revieweres will usually use a product for several months prior to publishing their review.

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      Markus Mahr said:
      The NEEO Homepage still says the Item is in Presale, and thats what it exactly is (at least in the current state).

      Markus Mahr The NEEO website no longer states that the product is available to “pre-order”; it states that it is available to “order”, and the linked page includes the word “buy” four times or more. NEEO products are clearly being sold to just about anybody with internet access and a credit card, and the website specifies that: “Your credit card will be charged immediately after placing an order”.

        As you can see, I really do love to read! 😉

      I work as part of an agile software development team on a daily basis. There’s nothing wrong in your observations about development priorities or software challenges. However, the main issue of contention (in this topic at least) is how the product does not meet the expectations set by the company’s marketing campaign, and at best is only crawling towards doing so.

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    • Markus Mahr Again, i can only speak for myself, but from that personal perspective I can only asure I am interested absolutely in reading thoughtsof any sort, may they differ or concide with mine. And, from our previous communication I understood our sentiments do not even stray apart too much - just I have a hard way praising NEEO as for one it just doesn't work as announced and expected. I truely hope it will some way - but being involved in project planning, management and execution myself (which btw. includes customer support and attending trade shows and events) I can only estimate the work they still have ahead of them.

       

      I remenmber that when NEEO first talked about "challenges" and delays I was very amused because the project I was on started about the same time NEEO gave in their project timeline on KS and we looked at the same estimated shift in ETA. So, I completely felt their pain and had no reason to doubt their projection. But at some point the claims strayed somewhat from my personal experience and I saw they were lagging way behind schedule than communicated (did I just use that word :X) A

      The "best thing" was the delay due to documentation required for import into EU not ready after 2 years of "production line" problems - and, please, look what amount of "documentation" we are actually talking here. Overall the history of this project has lead me to take everything with a spoon of salt and a generous ammoutn of slack in order of sheer self-protection.

      Oh, btw. our mentioned project was released June '15 with working Firmware 1, is now on Firmware 5.10, and just received an enhanced offspin last year.

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    • Dillon Moulder There you go, i don't checked the homepage several days and all is changed 🤓 Sorry for not double checking before i posted it.

      Klaus Grosser

      I'm looking straight forward to meat the Team at ISE and talk to them directly without the use of plain text like it is here. I fully give you right about communication and the fact what was mentioned in the campaign and what is currently available.

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    • Markus Mahr That'll be nice. I think it's a very good idea to give them personal feedback in person and would have liked so myself.unfortunately my own business schedule has kept me from going to ISE until now (although one of our distributed brands exhibits there). Looking forward to your sum up afterwards..

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      Markus Mahr  There's really no need to apologise. I know you have a lot of confidence in the product, and that really is a positive thing. Your product knowledge and development skills are helping many of the backers and buyers who actually can be helped right now. However, any suggestion that NEEO is not a consumer product already being sold to the general public is simply incorrect. That said, I would agree that NEEO is not yet a retail product, because it's not being sold through multiple channels of distribution. Note that although NEEO might not be available to buy from Amazon, the product has been listed on their global sites for some time and the feedback on them does not make for good reading at all.

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      Steveeo said:
      I can say that the press people there don't care about products released last year. Their focus is entirely on new and forthcoming new products, and they wouldn't have had any reason to write a word about NEEO.

      Steveeo I don't think this statement holds true for CEPro, as so far they've published a series of three articles associated with NEEO. They attended CES 2018, and I'm confident that they would've published another article had any progress in the software or the overall user experience been evident at the event.

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      • James Long
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      Dillon Moulder I agree with this. Of course I'm sure there has been some networking going on but they've been doing that for 3 years now at the shows, as evidenced by the write up by CEPro. Interesting to see that the remote is now also available to buy now rather than pre-order.

      I would disagree that reviewers wait months to publish reviews too. For a new piece of technology, reviews tend to come out pretty quickly after release - like CEPro's. I wrote initial impressions after 1 week and would've written a more thorough review as a user if there had been any updates to report. I still maintain that review units have not been sent out because NEEO knows what would happen. Therefore we remain beta testers until more positive reviews start coming through following the necessary updates. Basically the options are that a) review units have not been sent out or b) they have but there hasn't been any interest in reviewing it. Either way it goes against what Raphael claimed were the huge numbers of emails and messages of praise he was wading through. I think it's the usual marketing BS we've become accustomed to from him. If that sounds harsh it's because he's doing this product and the team at NEEO, who are trying very hard to help us all, a dis-service with this blinkered sentiment.

      If NEEO fails, and I really hope it doesn't, I know blame will be thrown at the likes of CEPro and users who create a negative atmosphere (whilst simply expressing their real experiences) but I know where the blame will really lie.

      If I sound frustrated it's because I remain extremely disappointed with the experience I have had since getting my NEEO. No updates, no idea what's coming or whether all the issues will be fixed - it's just not good enough.

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    • James Long We all would like NEEO integration with endless brands of products.  To make this happen, NEEO needs to be at trade shows to establish relationships with tech and home automation companies.  A lot of these companies were not around 3 years ago.  For NEEO to succeed, they are going to need these other companies to do the integration of their product with NEEO themselves.  It would be impossible to think that NEEO can do this all from their end. Obviously Nest, Spotify and Hue are not going to give the keys to their kingdoms to a small start up, but getting newer and smaller companies on board first should lead to much bigger and better things down the road.  You can disagree that reviewers spend months with products to make an informed opinion, but you would be wrong.  If they don't they are not doing their job properly.  If a review comes out right after the public release of a product, it has been in the reviewers hands well before that, or its called first impressions or a preview.  And let's face it, this is just a consumer programmable remote control, there is not a lot of press on any of these period. Since you brought up CEPro, there have been 3 articles on NEEO the last several months, and over the past year, unless they are hidden under CES, CEDIA etc. coverage, there have only been a couple of articles on other consumer programmable remotes, so they seem to be dominating coverage, which means absolutely nothing.  Also, thanks for reminding the community about your first impressions on CEPro.  The link below has first impressions from two industry pros, which includes updates from the original post.

      https://www.cepro.com/article/integrator_kris_hogg_neeo_remote_control_review

      One last thing, you can put whatever spin on the change from pre-order to order now, the only change is that the remotes are available to ship immediately.

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      Dave H I'm not trying to spin anything Dave. Just stating that it has now changed which I hadn't noticed.

      Kris Hogg said that it would be a good purchase for his mother*, something which I would politely and vehemently disagree with. My family were not able to get to grips with it at all as I have stated a number of times. 

      The fact remains that my experience with NEEO has been woeful. I have had a device that hasn't worked properly for over 2 months with zero updates. This wouldn't be so bad if I hadn't also been subjected to an unprofessional series of emails from the CEO of the company who, in doing so, demonstrated that he does not value the opinions of anyone that has anything negative to say about his product. This particular interaction, along with the continued vagueness on the updates (what's actually going to be in them and when) suggests to me that NEEO (specifically the boss) is not interested in addressing the concerns of those posting. Quite frankly I think your opinion on the matter would be quite different had you seen what I received. If nothing else you'd perhaps question, as I do, the direction the company will take under such leadership. 

      What I don't understand is why people who are posting negative things about NEEO (in the sense that poor user experiences can be deemed negative) have to defend themselves from a select few who will hear nothing bad said about NEEO. It's not like people are bashing NEEO for the sake of it (e.g. some of the comments during the campaign) - I'd be confident in assuming that everyone wants NEEO to succeed because we all have an investment in NEEO that we don't want to just see lost. 

      Let me say it again - what I was promised I would receive in my hands is not what I got.  Simple as that. I have seen no change in that situation and perhaps I will after the next update comes out. In the mean time, excuse me if I may try to find out if there is anything being said in the press or community about NEEO during big shows such as CES. 3 reviews on CEPro being spun as good is not particularly convincing to me, especially when one of them wasn't great and another was a huge response from Raphael in response to the negative comments (it's certainly his style). I'm afraid you aren't going to convince me that the lack of coverage is normal.

      *corrected as I thought he said grandmother

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      James Long Dave H Perhaps Kris Hogg can contribute to this discussion. 🤔

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    • Dillon Moulder Nice find. It would be great if he could chime in.

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    • Dave H Dillon Moulder would definitely be good to hear from him!

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    • James Long to be honest I to think you’re quite negative, you haven’t always been though.

       

      about if the remote is a feasible solution for the less technical? I will say absolutely! My grandparents are able to use the remote and this is a greater wonder than that our kid is able to. Our son has it’s own remote on his room so he can better operate his Sonos. Anyways in a lot of cases the remote is bringing a lot of ease, especially to the not so technical. 

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      Niels de Klerk I know I am but to be fair, I am not in a situation where NEEO is working for me and my experience in trying to get it work has been awful. My negativity certainly stems from the behaviour of Raphael when I first posted my impressions and his subsequent correspondence with me - he's done a lot of damage to the NEEO brand in my eyes and whilst I had respect for him during the campaign, he threw it all away. 

      It's very hard to maintain a positive attitude after waiting 2.5 years, being disappointed and then posting what I thought was a helpful first impressions to only find that the CEO labelled me as negative and someone creating a negative atmosphere and probably someone who will never be satisfied. Fair enough, give me something to be positive about then - has this happened in my two months of ownership? No.

      You know I said I would hold NEEO to account if they did not live up to the high expectations (and praise them if they did). I think I have been fair in my disappointment throughout and my negativity has only been amplified by the issues others are having and the appalling handling of it by Raphael. 

      For what it's worth, I think you've been fantastic but I tell you something that is noticeable in these forums now the remote is out - the absence of the so called NEEO "fan boys" *not my nickname) from the campaign days who would defend NEEO against any slight. They comprised about 50% of the comments on Kickstarter with the mad arguing back and forth with the so called "haters." What I mean is the negativity, not just from me, certainly comprises the majority of what is being posted on here.

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    • James Long Kris Hogg also said:

      "It is, however, the first remote I've put into the house that Mags [wife] understands and could use instantly without instruction"

      My niece echoed these comments as we were out of town last weekend and she was up to watch our dog.  No issues controlling Directv, Plex, Roku and lights after just a 2 minute tutorial.

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      Dave H ...I very much doubt that Mrs Hogg was listening to their library of music through Sonos, browsing content on the Amazon Fire TV or changing the colour of their Philips Hue lights at the time though; these are all devices mentioned in the very same article. Perhaps she could use it because she instantly understood that the product’s usability with their devices was so restricted at the time (joke!).  

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      • James Long
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      Dave H I very much wish that was the experience we had in our house but unfortunately not. I do envy you! Perhaps we can see what the next update brings and if there are any issues I can contact you for help? I really do want to get this working despite what some may think. My family were very excited to get rid of all the remotes too but just simply couldn't figure it out

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    • James Long Keep your fingers crossed.  Team NEEO has not posted anything for quite awhile which leads me to believe they may be working on something else currently.  But that is just a guess.

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      Dave H if it wasn't a guess it wouldn't be NEEO would it? 😉 incidentally the something new had better be related to current NEEO and not something else...

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    • James Long I'm guessing it is the thing everyone is waiting for.  Unless there is some European holiday I am not aware of.

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    • Niels de Klerk "My grandparents are able to use the remote and this is a greater wonder than that our kid is able to."

      No reason to doubt so, having it set up, improved with a SDK script running auxiliary server through a "non - stupid" grandson and father that you are ;)

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    • Klaus Grosser 😆 

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  • The following user experience posted on the Kickstarter page today echoes many of the sentiments in this topic and demonstrates the level of frustration some users have with the product as it currently stands.

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      Dillon Moulder extreme - not sure if he was aware that he could have perhaps asked for some help on Planet NEEO lol?! Maybe he'll need help now reassembling it!

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      James Long It is indeed an extreme reaction, and not something I've considered doing (yet). Perhaps Dwayne did not know about Planet NEEO (was it you who posted on the Kickstarter page Dwayne?), but I'm not confident that visiting here would've changed the outcome. At least it's material for a very interesting support article! 😉

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      • James Long
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      Dillon Moulder or material for a viral YouTube video review if he filmed it - let's hope not for NEEO's sake! 😉

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      James Long I'd love to see video footage, but I doubt it exists! 😲

      The part of the post that resonates with me is regarding the use of smart phone apps. I still find that using the HDA uControl, Panasonic TV Remote 2, Fire TV, PS4 SecondScreen, Philips Hue, Nest, Amazon Alexa and Sonos apps on my iPhone is not much more inconvenient than using the NEEO, and that these apps combined afford more control than NEEO at present.

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    • Dillon Moulder He has a Planet NEEO account but he never used it to post anything. (everyone can search names on planet NEEO). I have recorded a video that shows destructive force on the NEEO Dock to test its strength. I expect it soon to be shared.

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      • Dillon Moulder
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      Niels de Klerk How do we know that this person has an account on Planet NEEO? If you're referring to the Dwayne account, then I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it belongs to Dwayne McKoy who posted on the Kickstarter page. After all, there could be more than one person named Dwayne in the world who owns a NEEO.
      I'm not sure that the community needs or wants video proof of the durability of the NEEO's dock. I think they're far more concerned about software limitations than hardware limitations. Nonetheless, I'll watch the video if and when you share it! 😉

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      • James Long
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      Dillon Moulder  Niels de Klerk yes please do share the video - if possible could you find a "stupid device" and use that to smash the NEEO dock? I think it would create a nice sense of irony to the proceedings 😉

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    • James Long I don’t have any stupid devices and soon™️ We will all forget about it.

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      Niels de Klerk what I posted there was actually a joke...I wouldn't recommend wasting a perfectly good stupid device to destroy your dock 😉 I know I haven't been too humorous recently but NEEO hasn't fully killed my sense of humour...even if it isn't much of a sense of humour...

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      • Gavin Lawrie
      • Never, ever, doing another Kickstarter...
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      Dave H No I don’t!  That’s simply what we have to control. A harmony plus phone or firetv control works better than a NEEO plus phone or firetv does. Not sure why you struggle with the concept. 

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  • Dave H said:
    One last thing, you can put whatever spin on the change from pre-order to order now, the only change is that the remotes are available to ship immediately.

    Dave H Not the only change. The main difference is the pre-order price was $339 (excluding taxes and shipping), and the price when ordering now is $369 (excluding shipping and taxes). Another difference is that when pre-ordering, credit card details were taken but payments were not processed; when ordering, payment is taken using the supplied credit card details. Ordering also changes the buying experience, as the company do not have to refund a payment when a customer cancels a pre-order; when a customer cancels an order, depending on the timing, this might involve having to return the item to qualify for a refund. There could well be consumer rights implications too. No spin there. 😉

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  • I thought I would just update my thread - in particular I'm mindful that I am deemed negative by some so I wanted to post some positives...followed unfortunately by something that undoes all the good work that the team have put in this week. This is supposed to be constructive, as I have always tried to be.

    So for the positives: I have been communicating with Patrick privately regarding Sonos issues. Even though I don't plan to use NEEO for controlling Sonos at this time, I was happy to help Patrick and the team with my input as I was able to replicate an issue that was posted. It seems that through accessing my logs they were able to identify the problem and will work on a fix. This is impressive service and whilst it won't necessarily impact me, it showed me that when it's working well, the support is strong.

    As an aside to Sonos I also explained my own issues with Patrick and he was really communicative, helpful and responsive with ideas. In particular we are currently looking at a work around for the Smart Delay issues. I have noticed an improvement in timings related to switching recipes and inputs as a result of a TV driver upgrade that they did - thank you for that guys! Whilst it isn't as snappy as it was when Smart Delay was enabled it's much better than the 30-45 seconds it was taking to switch recipes before. 

    For the other issues I have we have agreed to see how things are following the update that is coming.

    I have been deliberately troubleshooting and playing more with NEEO this week as I still want it to work for me and my family. I have been trying to set up things like favourites and even get the Icelandic TV icons included so the parents can pretty much figure things out! 

    It's still not there though and my wife had issues yesterday with the UI and confusion when she tried to use NEEO again. As there are UI improvements coming in the update I wasn't too bothered as I've always been thinking it's something I'll revisit more seriously after the next update. But it does still mean I couldn't recommend NEEO right now because it remains confusing for the end users I want it to work for.

    This is what I posted on another thread in response to whether I would buy a NEEO again. I said no based on the current situation. There was nothing in what I posted that broke NEEO posting rules. Yet today the post and follow up comments were removed. This happened at the same time that Raphael was online posting replies in other threads so it becomes easy to assume he has been involved in doing this. I have already explained that my experience with Raphael has been poor - I would say that the majority of my negativity towards NEEO actually comes from the interaction we had early on in this thread and personally at that time. I'm not going to go over and rehash things though.

    What I would say about this specifically is that it seems to be another example of abusing moderator privileges. There was absolutely no need for it to happen. Moreover, I have had an almost enjoyable experience with NEEO this week and was ready to say as much. The team deserves to receive credit in light of facing a lot of criticism recently. Yet all their hard work is undone in one action by someone behaving like this. I want NEEO to succeed but if their CEO is in fact acting this way, how can I be asked to continue to believe in NEEO? It's just ridiculous behaviour regardless of who did it and it just taints the whole NEEO brand again. It shows me that someone at least at NEEO is still not prepared to listen to feedback that they don't like and whilst that remains the case, I find it very hard to feel positive about NEEO as a company. Perhaps it's time for a change within NEEO before it's too late?

    Like 3
    • James Long Nice to hear you are giving it a go.

      Like 2
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dave H I am trying, it's why I'm active on here - my posts are not the posts of someone with any agenda other than to get what I was promised. I can only comment on what I'm experiencing. I'm glad the technical side of things is moving in the right direction. I'm sad that it looks like the behaviour of one individual within NEEO remains questionable. I am leaving it with Patrick to sort and investigate because it's not doing them any favours.

      EDIT: I meant to ask - did you see any reason for our comments on the other thread to be removed by someone?

      Like 1
      • Julian
      • Julian
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      James Long this behavior is not new, I already noticed it in another thread about two weeks ago.

      Like 2
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Julian Did you notice any content in those posts that warranted them being deleted? I’ve not seen any posts which could be construed as a breach of the community rules, and I visit here often. I’ve certainly never had cause to report any post on Planet NEEO.

      Like
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Julian Dillon Moulder I leave it to readers to decide whether it's plausible that at the exact time that the CEO was online today, a post that was critical of NEEO (but did not breach any posting guidelines) was removed due to supposedly being flagged 5 times by other people in the community.

      I would in fact prefer to find it had been flagged rather than to assume that the CEO is capable of such behaviour. History tells me though that it's entirely plausible that he could have done so. He cannot refrain from taking things personally and interfering.

      I am in contact with Patrick about this because it's getting ridiculous on Planet NEEO now to have to respond to this type of thing when really this should be a place that people visit to get solutions to the issues they've been having. I trust Patrick to resolve this and take any appropriate action. 

      Like 1
      • Julian
      • Julian
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Dillon Moulder I believe it was in the post about the next firmware release and when I refreshed the main page to see if there were new replies the number of replies actually decreased which seemed rather odd to me. I then went into the post and as far as I can remember there were some critical comments which were not there anymore. But nothing in any of the comments I read in that thread would have been grounds to moderate/delete them. But well, as James Long indicated, if that is the way NEEO will go from here it is really a shame. 

      Like 2
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Julian I do recall one or two people making comments in the past (thinking of Jason and X X here) about their posts being deleted for no apparent reason, but I’d never seen evidence of it having actually happened (I even commented that I’d seen no evidence of it). Until today, of course! If anybody with moderator privileges is attempting to control the narrative on Planet NEEO by deleting specific posts, then that is incredibly duplicitous of them. The same goes for any members of the community who would choose to report posts that in no way breach the rules of Planet NEEO.

      Like
    • James Long I for one love reading your posts. Pos or neg. 

      Like 2
    • Karl Smith thanks Karl, appreciate you saying that

      Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      I am in touch with James and I am currently analysing this. I will post all the facts no later then Monday 8 AM CET. 

      Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Patrick Thanks for confirming this. As I’m sure you’re aware, there have been suggestions of censorship in the past. There have also been calls for transparency from the company. Some honest dialogue on these subjects would be much appreciated. An explanation of the whole moderation process would also be beneficial.

      Like 1
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Patrick as discussed in my private communication with you just now, I would appreciate you sharing with me what you uncover before posting facts on the public forums. I hope you appreciate I have shared some considerable information and evidence with you today privately which does not make for good reading. Thank you

      Like 2
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Julian the firmware release thread had 121 replies in it last week - it now has 107. My response to Patrick asking that he refrain from teasing and post some tangible news instead (within posting guidelines and not inappropriate) has been removed. A number of other "negative" posts have been removed. Patrick confirms that a number of  my posts have been reported/flagged. I am waiting for Patrick to tell me what he finds out today before posting any more on what I (and one other backer) have discovered so far.

      Like 2
      • Henning
      • Henning
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      James Long I am sorry to read your story here and I like the balanced and fact-based way you describe it. Keep that style and I am sure it will help NEEO to improve their communciation 🙂

      My personal Planet NEEO experience was good so far. I liked the open discussion about things. Most of the time the staff seems to be fast and helpful!

      Like 2
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Henning thanks very much Henning - at least it's not been you flagging my posts as inappropriate then 😉 I would say that I haven't had any reason to believe that people find my posts worthy of reporting or flagging as inappropriate so far - in fact, the response to what I post is usually met very positively. That's why I find it suspicious that my post was apparently flagged in this manner and it turns out others have been too (I'm told). It doesn't reflect what people are saying publicly to me on here anyway. Let's see what Patrick find out before I post anything more on this.

      Like 1
    • James Long Not sure why mine would have been removed.  Not sure why your original post would have been removed from the thread.  Can't say for the reply to my removed post, as I never saw it.

      Like 2
      • James Long
      • James_Long
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dave H I know, there was nothing in the post or subsequent comments that warranted removal. My response to you very honestly just said that I had responded to the thread starter with my answer and questioned your need to respond to my post on it and whether it was to be argumentative. I just asked that we respect each others views on the product however it's working or not for each of us (in essence). I didn't call you any names don't worry!

      My post on the firmware thread politely asking for them to stop teasing and just provide updates has also been deleted, something Patrick agrees was not warranted.

      It's being looked into today and hopefully we'll have some answers to the apparent censorship that appears to be going on.

      Like 1
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      I have just shared my finding with James Long since I really want to clear this situation with him directly before posting publicly. You will get the full information that he has received too.

      Like 1
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      There is no censoring happening on Planet NEEO, I went ahead and outlined the general tools and processes on Planet NEEO over here: https://planet.neeo.com/t/k9fqhg

      The first missing post brought to my attention was the one in this thread, the second one was over from the “When is the next update?” thread. I was very quickly able to see that the two posts from James Long have been flagged by users five times, nobody from the moderation team did remove the flags, so when reaching five flags both of these were hidden and added to the moderation queue.

      James Long brought the argument that more then just his posts had been removed and that it is almost impossible that these have all be flagged in such a short time, also Dillon Moulder and Dave H posted that their posts were missing. I was not able to find any flags for all of these posts and replies, they were not getting caught by any other filters, I couldn’t even find them in the “removed posts” in the moderation area. This and the fact that is was weekend is why it took me a while to figure this out.

      The answer is surprisingly simple: The missing posts in this thread here were all nested replies to the post from @James. Since the post to which all these replies have been targeted was hidden, all the nested replies to it were gone as well. This somehow makes sense since they would be out of context. I went ahead analyzing this since this argument did not really work in the other thread since the post from @James was a nested reply itself. I found a bit of an error, this was the post from @James which got flagged https://planet.neeo.com/r/631nws , once this was hidden, all nested replies below went hidden too, which is simply technically wrong and we will make sure this gets fixed immediately.

      In the meantime I went ahead and reviewed the posts from @James, they clearly do not break any of the rules here, therefore all posts including the nested replies have been restored.

      A user can only flag a post one single time, so while being able to bring a post to our attention this way, a single user will not have the possibility to hide any posts this way. On average we are getting 20-30 flags per day, meaning a lot of replies get flagged and it is pretty common. A lot of people seem to use it like an "unlike button", even my reply to the "Update Thread" has been flagged a few times, even our top contributors already had threads temporarily hidden due to many flags.

      Like 1
    • Julian Jason X X Dillon Moulder

      Does the response mirror any of your experiences? Did any of your removed posts Jason return? Just curious about other people's experiences

      Like
    • Patrick Also they where allready blocked using planet Neeo... 😉

      Maybe it is an idea to raise the flag limit by 4 (means 8 or maybe 10 Flags) to get a bit more flexibility to the handling.

      But as far as i know this was the third or fourth happening since launch of planet.neeo, so it is still in the boundries i guess. It only takes some time to get reworked and fixed (especially at weekends)

      Like 2
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick Out of interest, is Planet NEEO based on Lithium? If not, what? Please confirm.

      Patrick said:
      A user can only flag a post one single time

      Is that one flag per post per user account, or one flag per post per IP address? Please clarify.

      Patrick said:
      On average we are getting 20-30 flags per day

      That’s a remarkable statistic! It suggests that on a typical day, more existing posts are being flagged than new posts are being created by users who aren’t NEEO staff.

      Like
    • Dillon Moulder If you are interested in the ground code base, a short look inside the html code should bring the needed information!

      Like 1
  • Dave H said:
    63 user posts in the last 24 hours

    Dave H Many thanks for keeping count and pointing that out, but I’m not referring to the last 24 hours. Have you deducted posts by NEEO staff when calculating? I’d suggest the last 24 hours or 48 hours have probably been atypical due to the subject matter being discussed. Of course, this is just based on what I’ve observed when visiting rather than actual metrics.

    Like
    • Dillon Moulder Sorry Dillion, it is just another case of your numbers not adding up.

      Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view
      Dave H said:
      Sorry Dillion, it is just another case of your numbers not adding up.

      Dave H No need to apologise; I’ve never had that issue. I thought that was made clear when you only identified one difference between pre-order and order. 😉

      BTW you’ve spelt my name incorrectly too.

      Like
    • Dillon Moulder Right, and everything you pointed out was only changed because of the fact that units were in stock.

      Dillon Moulder said:
      Meticulous, not "funny". 😉

      Generalizations as "a typical day"  are really not meticulous.

      Like 1
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Dave H Sorry, but you’ve lost me there. I don’t recall debating why there was a change from pre-order to order, only the differences between them.

      Perhaps you can restructure your post because it reads as though I said the last sentence, when I did not.

      The words you’ve quoted were in relation to the PS4 competition that ended with the prize being awarded to an ineligible entrant, which was confirmed as correct. I’ve not claimed to have meticulously studied posting metrics on Planet NEEO; in fact, I stated the opposite.

      Thanks again! Enjoy the rest of your day.

      Like 1
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