Stupid Devices

I want to share some background information with you regarding so called stupid devices and NEEOs handling of them. 

I saw some of you were asking why NEEO is not handling it the way some our competitors do. The short answer is: We very much dislike that way and prefer a more robust way to handle it.

 

BACKGROUND

I have spent my last +10 years in the smart home industry and thought about this a lot. With my last company - which is one of the largest residential integration companies in Europe - we tried to avoid using stupid devices in general to provide a great user experience. We actually tried to get around infrared in general. Of course there are some devices like set-top boxes that are given in certain regions / projects, so we still had to deal with some stupid devices. As these were custom installations, we had a chance to install additional gear to actually detect the device's status (tricks like monitoring the video sync or the power consumption), which allowed us to KNOW the actual status of those devices to handle them properly. In rare cases, there were still some stupid device situations we had to deal with. For instance, existing TVs that did not support discrete input switching. In those rare situations, we used a mechanism that is identical to the stupid device handling of NEEO. Basically, we offered the exact functions that are provided by the manufacturer of those stupid devices and which are needed to get to the result. If there is only an "input toggle" available for stupid infrared controlled TVs, the "input toggle" is exactly the button we provide. This allows the user to get to the desired result anytime, independent from the unknown status which the device is in when starting it. 

 

WHY NOT AUTOMATE THAT?

The short answer is: Because I hate unreliable automation. On top of that, less technical users have no understanding of what exactly is happening, or might not even know about the stupid device challenges in general. By providing a very descriptive UI that instructs the user to do the right thing, the user basically has full control over what’s happening. Automating any toggle functions, such as power toggles or input toggles, results in messy scenarios where users need to “repair” things to bring them back to the right status. I have tried to make a well known competitor remote work to control some Loewe and Vizio TVs and the way they tried to "remember" what input things were on is worse than the odds of playing roulette. I could sort of deal with it, as I generally know the functioning of such AV gear. My wife, however, who is less familiar with that had zero chance. For her it was just working sometimes - but often not. 

 

DISCLAIMER

I had installed the above-mentioned product only to get to know it a bit. I did not particularly like it ;) In comparison with the remotes I used to work within my custom installation company (such as Crestron and RTI), the competitor profit mentioned above was a huge step backward; a huge step backward from an expensive custom solution that was not satisfying either. I’m in no way here to bash those “competitor” products. Just sharing some insights.  

 

THE DATABASE

One thing Andreas Marti and the team did particularly regarding this topic was to gather and reverse-engineer tons of infrared codes since day one of NEEO. There is no good database out there. 

Looking at the numbers in our database, I can tell you that already today we have more discrete codes than any others. And the best thing is that this is growing fast, also thanks to you!

 

MAKING IT BETTER

There are two more factors I want you to be aware of:

1. CEC 

We have built in HDMI CEC support which is very unique. The first beta of this feature is coming up for particular products. By having this HDMI port in our NEEO Brain, we will be able to do the magic other remote or smart home systems will never be capable of. Via CEC, we know the wiring details and we can discreetly control devices. No toggle roulette. Of course, just like with IR, there are a lot of edge cases in the real world and it’s by no means easy to get that done properly. But you know our engineers. I have no doubt this will be awesome once they invested some time into it.     

2. “Smarten” your device 

In the infrared world, there are solid macros that can overcome the toggle issue.  The driver team is actually doing a ton of workarounds like this in the database. We do have a mechanism in the product where the driver team can enter a small macro simulating a discrete command. Of course, we do this very carefully and only with macros that bring a good experience. The mechanism is there tough and we use it wherever it makes sense

We have built our own database in the last 3 years from scratch to solve exactly this and many other nasty cases you find with IR. Andy and the driver team have been creating something that certainly goes beyond anything in the market: We fought hard to get a ton of toggle commands that you won't find elsewhere, the same goes for codes we created and reverse engineered. 

Even more infos about our IR approach can be found here.

Here is an example: If your set-top box can be turned on with a (#1) digit, it should suit for such a macro. Basically, the (#1) key will become the “power on” command. To have a specific status, you use a macro such as (#1), wait for 3 sec and then send (power toggle) to make sure it’s turned off. This is how you get to a discrete ON and a discrete OFF command / macro. Such workarounds can make a stupid device “smart”. But you don’t need to do this manually. The way our database is built allows for such “macros” to become a simple command. If you work with Andy to make your device smarter, there is a good chance to get to a robust solution; a much more reliable solution than what automating the power toggle could ever be. Give it a shot. Everyone in the community will benefit if we make your devices smarter together. Of course, there are still some devices in the wild that do not support any of the options mentioned above - and for exactly those, we have the robust stupid device handling with the screens that offer the right buttons.

Long story told short: If you have a stupid device and you find a command that wakes the device up / turns it on, make sure to let us know!

 

A WILD EXAMPLE 

Here is an analogy to describe the weakness of automated toggling so you can follow my thoughts:

It would be a bit like having a car that can drive forward and backward, but instead of having a (D) for forward and a (R) for backward, you simply have a “change direction” button. Most of the times, it will be right and you can remember correctly what you did last. Depending on that, you know whether or not you need to press the button to drive into the direction you want. This could work in many situations but when it goes wrong, it’s pretty ugly. I prefer control. 

If you still want to automate it though you can do so of course: Via the recipe editor, you can still implement such toggle automation in the same fashion as it’s done in the competitor product mentioned above. We don’t restrict that, but we do NOT recommend it, especially if you have some non-technological users around. If it goes wrong just once, their perception will be “Sometimes, your remote does not work".

 

STUPID INPUT DEVICES

In addition to the stupid devices that do not provide discrete commands for "power on" and "power off", there are so called "stupid input devices". These do not allow discretely switching to specific inputs with specific commands, meaning inputs can only be selected via toggle/scroll of a menu.

A discussion I would be very interested to have here as well is about the hub devices such as AVR or some soundbars and target devices such as TVs or projectors. The competitor product I was referring to further up handles this extremely poor. Basically, again they try to automate something that is not meant to be automated. Confusion is guaranteed. I tried several times to create one of their "Activities" that goes to the right input, but no chance. Within NEEO, those exact devices are smart devices with discrete power and input switching, so I don't even have to deal with any hacks at all on NEEO. There are quite a few of such devices, where NEEO features discrete commands, but above mentioned competitor does not. Anyways, some devices are truly "power stupid" some truly "input stupid", some are both. 

So how and when do you send what command in order to switch to the right input of a TV that neither offers discrete power nor input switching? 

How and when do you switch the input for your AVR, even if you have a discrete command for it but power is stupid?

Assuming some of you would think about adding a power toggle into the recipe; if the power roulette went wrong (device was already on when you sent the power toggle command) you would run into a situation where the input command was ignored. Now you "repair" your device and need to find a way to send that input again. This sounds like a nightmare for a less technical user. 

How does it behave if you combine those two devices?

In the current NEEO handling of stupid devices (which is not 100% completed) those cases are ALL covered, as on the same screen you have both the manual power and all you need to switch the inputs (probably many of you have not seen that as you were dealing only with stupid source devices I assume). Also, if you have multiple stupid devices, no matter whether they are "power stupid" or "input stupid" or both, the handling to get everything ready is all on one screen.

 

SUMMARY

I much prefer a DO-THIS situation - compared to a ALWAYS-AUTOMATICALLY-DO-THE-OPPOSITE-OF-WHAT-YOU-ARE-CURRENTLY-DOING-WHICH-IS-NOT-FULLY-UNDER-MY-CONTROL-AND-IF-MY-KID-PRESSES-THE-BUTTON-ON-THE-DEVICE-ITSELF-IT’S-WRONG-FOR-SURE-AND-IT-GET’S-EVEN-MESSIER situation 😉

Sorry for not having managed to write that in a shorter post. I hope this gives you some good insights.

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  • Geoff Gautier said:
    Kill the stupid screen....
    Like 1
  • Patrick Is there a list of what Neeo considers "Smart" devices?  I am looking to buy a new 4K UHD LED TV and want to make sure that what I buy works with Neeo beautifully.
    And since you know that I also have a Bose Soundtouch 300 Soundbar, CEC would probably be best for the TV as well. 

    I am asking since I search the Neeo database, it doesnt tell me until after I install the device that it is "Stupid" - I want to avoid Stupid devices as much as possible, now!  :)

    Thanks.

    Like 1
  • There is no list yet, we want to add this to the works with NEEO page in the future.

    LG, Panasonic, Samsung are pretty reliably according to our device driver team. For all other brands, it is very specific to the model and can not be said in general. To make 100% sure it is not stupid, you can check with us again once you have found a model you like, we can then check that device specifically.

    Hope that helps fo a start.

    Like
      • Jason
      • Jason
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick I wouldn't say reliable with Samsung products. Still no support for HDMI 4 stitching on Samsung JS9500, still considers my Samsung HW-K950 as a stupid device. Both Samsung flagship products in the top of their range. 

      Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Jason Have you already posted that somewhere in another thread? If not, could you do so please?

      Like
      • Jason
      • Jason
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick I've posted it numerous times. Basically the answer I got was there are no discreet codes so nothing Neeo can do.

      Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Jason OK, I have checked this with the device driver team. Basically, there is simply nothing we can do, if Samsung does not have an IR code to switch to HDMI4 directly, we can simply not add this code. So your complaint should basically be targeted at Samsung. We try to do magic whenever we can, but we are out of luck for this case.

      The same goes for stupid devices, we can't do anything about Samsung not having discrete power commands, even for flagship devices. However, we are working on solutions for this one. We will change how stupid devices are handled/presented, and we have other ideas, for example making use of HDMI CEC which would probably solve both issues.

      Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Jason Even though we have not a lot of hopes, we have one last chance for the Samsung TV which you could test for us.  Andy has put together a Live IR Test, could you please go ahead and test this according to this manual ? The code: T4I6SFBUft

      It would help a lot if you could let us know if any of these commands worked.

      Like
      • Jason
      • Jason
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick I get that Neeo can't ad codes that do not exist within the product. Even though that was one of keeps big selling points. It was said by Rapheal numerous times how Neeo was changing things and working with manufactures to have the largest data base if discreet codes. 

       

      But Samsung is not the one that list both products as a "works with Neeo device" Neeo is the one that does that. So no, my complaint should not be with Samsung. 

      And having discreet codes is not the ultimate problem. The issue is that Neeo does not handle these devices correctly. Neeo should know what input was used last and how many input toggles to send to get to the correct one as the competitors do. 

      For example HDMI 4. The competition knows to send source button, then send left trigger a few times, then send right trigger 3 times. This puts it in HDMI 4. Yes it's a round about way and not ideal, but it at least a alternative to nothing. Which is Neeo current solution. 

      Like
      • Jason
      • Jason
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick I will test it later this evening. But mostly for others benefit. As until Neeo can automatically power on/off and switch inputs on my sound bar. The remote offers little function and use for me compared to the competition. 

       

      The reason for my original post was that you said Samsung was generally reliable to work with Neeo. And that for me is not the case and others should be aware of that. Especially as I said earlier. You falsely have both products as a "works with Neeo" device. 

      Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Jason Would be really nice if you could give this a test.

      And you are totally right, Samsung is no guarantee that everything will be working, I should have made that more clear. If you want to be absolutely certain, please check the exact model with us before buying.

      For your Soundbar, could you check if any commands other then the power commands turn the device on? Often switching inputs, changing or changing the volume do so. If we find such a command, we can "unstupify" it. Your soundbar is the Samsung HW-K950, right?

      Like
      • Jason
      • Jason
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Patrick yes my sound bar is HW-k950. And we both know there is no direct IR input switching or power on/off. It is unlikely a small start up as your self will convince a company like Samsung to chcnage that. 

      So like harmony you need to work with what you get and figure out ways around that situation. But as has been said, Neeo refuses to do that and work with the masses. 

      As for checking before I purchase...so are you suggestion I should put sound quality, and  picture quality decisions second to whether Neeo supports those devices.

      You are saying that I should settle on my video and sound expectations if I expect Neeo to work as advertised...well that not going to happen. 

       

      As I have said before, if harmony can work around these manufacture limitations then Neeo should be able too. 

      If not then Neeo has failed before it even got a start. 

      Like 1
      • Jason
      • Jason
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      also, how am I supposed to check before purchasing new equipment as The "works with Neeo" site  is unreliable and provides false information as to what is currently supported by Neeo?

      It should be listed correctly in the site, or at the least ha e a disclaimer as to whether a device is fully supported (AKA not stupid) or only half assed supported by Neeo. 

      Like 2
  • @NEEO How about  a generic step: Ping device via given IP address to determine if it is switched on, or not? If it is off, send the command for power, if it is on, don't.

    Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Thomas Hagenmaier We are working on solutions which go very much into this direction. The ping has one issue you though, for TVs it sometimes takes "forever" until they actually respond to a ping. Another challenge is that the device would need to have a fixed IP, which is not easy to setup for everybody. Stay tuned, we are working on this.

      Like
  • I have an HDMI extension switch with a manual power toggle.  The intention is that this device is considered 'Always On'.  I have zero intention of getting up and manually turning the device on/off every time I switch to a recipe that uses one of these inputs.  

    I would much prefer to flag the device as 'Always On', as the actual switching of inputs is IR compatible.  I do not want to have to press extra buttons on my remote or phone app when I shouldn't need to.  

    Note that this has nothing to do with 'state awareness' or any of the discussions recently on this thread.  This is simply a request to not bother the consumer with telling us our device is 'stupid' when we perfectly know that power on/off is not IR controllable.  Devices with hard power switches are not 'stupid' devices, nor are any other 'always on' devices.  

    Like 1
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Loren Keagle 

      Just let me know the make and model of your device and I'll take a look at it ASAP. Thanks!

      Like
    • Andy Thanks, but there's already a separate thread for that device:

      https://planet.neeo.com/t/63fd96/hdmi-switch-not-supported

      I was just posting here to chime in on the request feature to better configure devices that are intended to be 'always on', regardless of whether they have a manual power switch or not.  

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Loren Keagle 

      Thanks! This is done! The new data appears around 1AM CET. Please update your device according to this guide. Thanks!

      Like
    • I have the same issue as Loren Keagle . I want to handle the power toggle manually. There should be a setting to ignore power on/off for this specific stupid device. I just keep it always on. It is not a good experience that every time the recipes are started I am bothered with manual power on/off screens that I don't need.

      Like
  • Raphael  Request to make the Philips Fidelio E5 smart. The device supports turning on when using specific input. These are the buttons:

    - Bluetooth

    - COAX

    - Optical In

    - Audio In

    - HDMI ARC

     

    Thanks!

    Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Kephas Busink 

      Thanks for the info!

      Yes, this means we can smarten up your device. Can you please measure the time the device needs to power on until it can receive and execute a power toggle command to turn it off? Thanks!

      Like
    • Andy Great! Just tested, takes 10sec before it can be turned of :-)

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Kephas Busink 

      Thanks!

      I have just added the workaround. The new data will appear around 1AM CET. Please update your device according to this guide. Thanks!

      Like
    • Andy Thank you Andy! The device is successfully updated. Commands are there. Works great now, thanks again!!

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Kephas Busink 

      Glad to hear!

      Like
  • Raphael said:
    and the way they tried to "remember" what input things were on is worse than the odds of playing roulette

     that!   my Logitech Harmony would close down my TV, Sky Box and Teufel Soundbar (the stupid device) but when I switched the system back on you never knew which feed you'd get - could be HDMI1 (preffered) or HDMI ARC (non -preferred).  If it went to ARC you had to shut down/restart often a few times to get HDMI1 back, or often fiddle with the TV or Soundbar.  so far with NEEO it starts and shuts down in the correct sequence!

    Like
  • Having received my Neeo today, it's a very exciting day! Great woek guys.

    I had a massive disappointment with the fabled stupid device debacle. I have one stupid device, a Netgem N7700 IPTV STB, which ruins the whole experience and makes my wife automatically refuse to use the Neeo.

    Now, while I wouldn't mind change the Netgem STB,  I can't. It's an operator-customized version used by the largest (or 2nd) TV operator in Finland  (Elisa) and no other STB is compatible by design.

    Unfortunately it seems the Netgem cannot be turned on or off by any other command than the Power toggle, so smartening it up is not an option. I have been successfully controlling it using a Harmony for years, and fortunately it has very good IR reception, so power toggle works very reliably.

    I'm dumbfounded as to what to do now, I dont like the stupid device UI one bit and the wife flat out refuses. I would much prefer a Logitechy approach of fixing it when its broken instead of complaing that it's a stupid device every single time.

    Like 1
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Henrik Klinkmann I am pretty sure you are not stuck with the current situation forever. We are working on technical solutions to work around that, one example would be using HDMI CEC. Based on all the feedback from this very thread we are also working on a change in the stupid device handling, I can not yet tell you when this will be ready, but I am pretty sure you'll like it.

      Like
    • Patrick Thanks for the heads up.

      Like
    • Patrick CEC is worth considering, but given the poor reliability of CEC and non-conformity of different brands, how is this going to be "better" than the option of having the Neeo maintaining a state transition table of all the dumb devices in the system? Other vendors have demonstrated that this can be extremely reliable.

      There are literally billions of lines of code controlling critical infrastructure around the world that use this approach of maintaining a state transition table to control dumb devices. Somehow the world hasn't caught on fire due to the "roulette" chances of things going bad.

      Like
    • Richard Thomas Since version 1.3 of HDMI, there is no different implementation of CEC possible, before this was possible, yes.

      But for your question, the best answer is, the biggest player in the Consumer related Smart Remote has a patent on this Chart inside the remote. Therefor the neeo can not maintain the same function, without making changes or paying them to use it.

      So, i guess, a having of this Option is better then not considering it at all!

      Like
    • Markus Mahr Yes, better than nothing. Though I have HDMI 1.3 devices that do not talk nicely to each other via CEC.

      I'm curious about this patent on the chart inside the remote. The core concept has existed from before the market for universal remotes existed. The implementation, explicitly as a state machine as I've described, was possible in a Philips Pronto many years ago (i.e. well over 20 years ago). If the idea has been patented, I would have expected the patent to have expired by now (that magic 20 year number). If it has not expired, I would expect someone to have argued that the patent is invalid.

      Note, this comes from the perspective of someone who owns a few patents and has seen products brought to market that use the ideas, after my patents have expired.

      Like
    • Markus Mahr 

       the biggest player in the Consumer related Smart Remote has a patent on this Chart inside the remote

      Surely Neeo would be maintaining the device state inside the brain, not the remote, correct?  In that regard, isn't it a completely different paradigm.   Maybe I'm not understanding the intricacies of this patent issue, but surely that's also because no one is actually explaining it clearly.

      The more confusing part in my mind is that we're not asking anyone to implement any sort of complicated state machine.  Most people are literally just asking for an 'on' flag - a boolean value that indicates whether the device has been activated by Neeo, and is in use.  From what I can tell, you're already remembering the power state of the devices, or else you wouldn't be able to call up the correct recipe to turn them off when I hit the power button!  From the laughably small amount of detail that has been explained here, it sounds like you're already in violation of this so called patent simply by having the ability to have a power button on the remote.

      The fact remains, all that's been discussed so far has been trivial implementations of trivial algorithms, and trivial algorithms are not admissible in patent law - just because there's a patent out there for a linked-list does not mean that it's enforceable, any more than I could claim a copyright on a C major scale on some sheet music.

      Now, if someone from Neeo would kindly explain EXACTLY what the patent issue is, and EXACTLY what it prevents you from implementing in your remote, then maybe all of us confused customers could move on with our lives.  

      Like
    • Richard Thomas Agreed.  I've slowly migrated 90% of my devices to those supporting HDMI 1.3+ and CEC. Guess what?  It's never worked reliably...   Sometimes the TV turns on the DVD player, and sometimes the receiver receives volume controls, but it's a total crapshoot.  At one point I suspected that all my devices were fighting over who gets control, so I put everything in a closed cabinet and tried to use my TV (the newest device) as the controller for everything.  It was a disaster, and I haven't bothered with CEC since.  I try to turn it off first thing on any devices that have the option to control, because it seems as though the CEC commands can interfere with the actual IR commands from the remote.

      Like
    • Richard Thomas I don't know, what exactly is the case i only know that there are a handfull of patents from their side (you can see the follwoing entry above: https://planet.neeo.com/r/h4fa1p )

       

      Also Loren Keagle yes, it can be a difference were you store this data and also what exactly you do, and as far as Raphael wrote somewhere (only a few days ago, but i'm currently not able to find the right post) they are allready into such a feature. So there will come something that changes the Stupid device handling, because the user is requesting it to come.

      That for me personaly is better then forcing the user to use this "feature" and never get any other solution.

      And yes, the patents are 20 years limited, but as far as i remeber there are a few (1-3 years) left until this is the time.

      But lets see, when and what NEEO will implement. If i manage to find the Input from Raphael i will link it here.

      There it is: https://planet.neeo.com/r/k9kdg6

      Like
  • Andy

    If you can give a look at my request for my Sat Receiver. It could be Smarten with an easy way : https://planet.neeo.com/t/k9k2r8/smarten-avoid-stupid-device-sagem-canalplus-le-cube

     

    I'm also confused about the way stupid devices are managed. No way that anyone at home agree to use this as my Harmony works very well. I get the point that Toggle is not perfect, but it a configuration where IR emitters are in front of devices (only a few inches) and never move, i never encounter any problem in months with my harmony. So, saying it's not reliable is false for a remote with separated emitters that are well positioned.

    If i try to create a custom recipe with a stupid device, i have the same results : it shows stupid device screens. This is really annoying as in my recipe, i did manage powering up my device and there is no need to show a button to power it again. Same thing when i leave the recipe. No need to have a power button as my recipe manage to power off the device.

    Could you at least let us choose to hide those stupid devices screens (Launched and Powered Off) ?

    Like 1
    • I have the same issue as Nicolas Philippe . I want to turn off the annoying stupid device screens.

      It's a simple audio device and we keep it always on. There is absolutely no need to show these stupid screens and it's very annoying that the execution of the recipes are stopped until we tap the screen.

      There should be a setting for stupid devices like "Skip power on/off screens for this device" or "Ignore power on/off while running recipes" or something.

      Like 1
  • Raphael

    I just got my Neeo and started adding my devices - as far as they are already (correctly) supported (https://planet.neeo.com/t/63kw6b/technics-sh-ac500d-not-working, https://planet.neeo.com/t/x1kw6c/technisat-digitradio-520 , https://planet.neeo.com/t/80kw6a/technics-su-c800u-se-a900m2 & https://planet.neeo.com/t/18kwmy/technics-sa-tx50-sh-ac500d-wiring) .

    As you can see I have some "stupid" devices which I hoped Neeo can get control of as this is possible by some other "smart" remote controls. But by setting up Neeo and now reading this post I am not sure if Neeo will/can ever do this. And replacing all my devices with "non-stupid" ones is definitely no solution (besides the costs) as I enjoy using this old devices (just google some pics of a SA-TX50 and you might understand why).

    But as they are also too old to have any HDMI port a support of CEC will not solve my current problem of the lack of adding automated activities for this devices (which actually my 30 Euro all-in-one remote can do).

    Hence, I kindly ask you to confirm that you are working on a solution to add some kind of smart "activities" also for these ("stupid") devices. As I already waited more than 2.5 years to get my backed Neeo I hopefully do not need to wait as long to really get any use out of it...

    Thanks.

    Like 2
  • First Neeo review from a tech site. early_reviews_of_neeo_remote_control_gorgeous_hardware_flawed_software

    Just like I said it would show, hardware is stunning, software is crap..

     

    Feel free to delet this post as you have done with my last one. 

    Like 2
      • Dillon Moulder
      • Product Owner
      • Dillon_Moulder
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Jason This article is already being discussed here, and that spawned this discussion. No evidence of censorship to be seen in either topic.

      Like
      • Jason
      • Jason
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Dillon Moulder 

      As for sensor ship. I have had a post deleted when I called out some flaws. 

      I did not know the article was already being discussed. I posted it because I was told by Rapheal that I was wrong and I was one of the only one who had problems with the Neeo software. And that apparently thousands upon thousands were 100% happy...obviouly not the case. 

      I don't visit here often so sorry of the arulcle was already posted. My Neeo is currently sitting in my junk draw. Because...truthfully, that' what is is, junk. At least compared to the competition.

      And before someone points out that software can be worked on and fixe, I get that. But they had 2 years to work on the software and it' beyond flawed. 

      Like 2
  • Really hoping that my Samsung Soundbar gets added and isn't a stupid device. Its the one piece of hardware that I am not able to control via the Neeo. I can turn on the tv, Apple TV etc but the volume still needs to be controlled and turned on via a seperate remote. Fingers crossed.

    Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Nick Brightman 

      Which exact device do you have? Thanks!

      Like
    • Andy it’s been added. HW-H551. Sadly it’s been classified as so called stupid. 

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Nick Brightman 

      We may be able to smarten it up. Is there any command that turns the device on, besides POWER TOGGLE?

      Like
  • Any chance of having the "stupid device" screen at the end of our individual controllers.

     

    I.E - My audio is treated as a stupid device, which is fine, but whenever I select my Tivo box i have to swipe past the stupid audio screen first; I'd much prefer it if it was at the end of my screen selection as my audio is left on.

    Like
  • My audio system(Logitech Z-906) work just as smart as described above, it has no problem turning on and off / switch input... etc., still it list as a stupid device and add another stupid manual screen every time i turn on  the device, even though it already switched on with the recipe. 

    Like
  • Raphael I just don’t believe my eyes what I read in your post here. Are you trying to tell me I have to press the power toggle button or swipe extra pages on the remote each time I want to watch my TV because you hate unreliable home automation? I don’t care about reliability when it comes to my PVR. But I care about user experience and I call it a very stupid user experience. Either you eliminate this stupidity or it will not win against my old harmony. Well, it will probably piss me off as I don’t like keeping 300 bucks in my drawer for fun. 

    Like 5
    • Pawel Pieczul No worries. We always listen to the feedback here and the „assumption mode“ you are referring to will arrive shortly. We will have both options available- you chose whichever one you prefer. Thanks, welcome to Planet NEEO & best regards from Cupertino 

      Like 2
    • Raphael That is beautiful. I am very pleased with the responsiveness of your support team and determination to improve the product!

      Like
    • Raphael If by "assumption mode" you mean state awareness (for power and input selection), than that is very good news indeed! Without it my NEEO will permanently take residence in the dust bin. I hope that also means the current "stupid device" screen will disappear and we will add a power toggle button to the shortcut page, which btw should not be different from the page with default shortcuts ... Finally, I too am baffled you call your customers' older devices stupid.

      Like 1
    • Geert Van Der Linden Just as follow up, it hase nothing to to with the old of the device. There are still some smart devices out there (Philips is one big player in this as well as some of the samsung gear) that just still not have discrete codes for power and or for input selection. And these devices are called stupid from neeo, because this is what they are.

      In todays Industry there should be possibilitiys for switching a device with an ir code to a dedicated state, but it is still not implemented in the devices. others are way more acuratly build and you have one code for on, one for off, one for hdmi1, ... thats what is a smart device.

      Like
    • Markus Mahr I understand that from an automation point of view devices without discrete on/off or input selection are stupid. Nevertheless, in this thread it has been described in detail why it is not a good idea to call your customers other devices stupid. Not when my harmony handles all of them easily. Not when NEEO only talks to three of my six devices and enables a grand total of zero use cases.

      Now, I am a positive and patient person and knew a long time ago we are in this for the long run, and at some point NEEO will deliver all I hoped from it. But guess which one of my many devices is currently at the top of my stupidity list?

      Like 3
    • Raphael 

      I complained a lot about this so I was very happy to receive news on the firmware upgrade and as far as I can see the “assumption mode” works flawlessly! I was also very pleased with the way you implemented the contextual fix devices menu, a very elegant solution.

      I also own a device without discrete input selection commands ... I was aware this firmware upgrade would only solve the power toggle issues, but was happy to see you also included an input selection fix into the fix devices menu!

      Unfortunately this command seems to be mapped badly but I assume this is part of the device driver so I will start a new topic on that specific device and collect all my requests on that device there rather than here.

      So, thanks to the team for this (much needed) firmware upgrade!

      Do you also plan including an assumption mode for input selection? I could (at least for testing and debugging) live with NEEO as it is but I cannot sell this to my wife, or mother in law, which surely is the whole point of NEEO ... I could also add another (smart) device to my setup to take care of audio switching but before I go down that route I need to make sure it remains compatible with other upgrades I am planning.

      Like 1
  • I am closing the replies here since this is now outdated. Based on all the feedback in this thread we have reworked to complete handling what we now call "not-so-smart-devices".

    Thank you all for helping us understand your needs.

    We are looking forward to hearing all your thoughts on the new handling over here.

    Like 2
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