Stupid Devices

I want to share some background information with you regarding so called stupid devices and NEEOs handling of them. 

I saw some of you were asking why NEEO is not handling it the way some our competitors do. The short answer is: We very much dislike that way and prefer a more robust way to handle it.

 

BACKGROUND

I have spent my last +10 years in the smart home industry and thought about this a lot. With my last company - which is one of the largest residential integration companies in Europe - we tried to avoid using stupid devices in general to provide a great user experience. We actually tried to get around infrared in general. Of course there are some devices like set-top boxes that are given in certain regions / projects, so we still had to deal with some stupid devices. As these were custom installations, we had a chance to install additional gear to actually detect the device's status (tricks like monitoring the video sync or the power consumption), which allowed us to KNOW the actual status of those devices to handle them properly. In rare cases, there were still some stupid device situations we had to deal with. For instance, existing TVs that did not support discrete input switching. In those rare situations, we used a mechanism that is identical to the stupid device handling of NEEO. Basically, we offered the exact functions that are provided by the manufacturer of those stupid devices and which are needed to get to the result. If there is only an "input toggle" available for stupid infrared controlled TVs, the "input toggle" is exactly the button we provide. This allows the user to get to the desired result anytime, independent from the unknown status which the device is in when starting it. 

 

WHY NOT AUTOMATE THAT?

The short answer is: Because I hate unreliable automation. On top of that, less technical users have no understanding of what exactly is happening, or might not even know about the stupid device challenges in general. By providing a very descriptive UI that instructs the user to do the right thing, the user basically has full control over what’s happening. Automating any toggle functions, such as power toggles or input toggles, results in messy scenarios where users need to “repair” things to bring them back to the right status. I have tried to make a well known competitor remote work to control some Loewe and Vizio TVs and the way they tried to "remember" what input things were on is worse than the odds of playing roulette. I could sort of deal with it, as I generally know the functioning of such AV gear. My wife, however, who is less familiar with that had zero chance. For her it was just working sometimes - but often not. 

 

DISCLAIMER

I had installed the above-mentioned product only to get to know it a bit. I did not particularly like it ;) In comparison with the remotes I used to work within my custom installation company (such as Crestron and RTI), the competitor profit mentioned above was a huge step backward; a huge step backward from an expensive custom solution that was not satisfying either. I’m in no way here to bash those “competitor” products. Just sharing some insights.  

 

THE DATABASE

One thing Andreas Marti and the team did particularly regarding this topic was to gather and reverse-engineer tons of infrared codes since day one of NEEO. There is no good database out there. 

Looking at the numbers in our database, I can tell you that already today we have more discrete codes than any others. And the best thing is that this is growing fast, also thanks to you!

 

MAKING IT BETTER

There are two more factors I want you to be aware of:

1. CEC 

We have built in HDMI CEC support which is very unique. The first beta of this feature is coming up for particular products. By having this HDMI port in our NEEO Brain, we will be able to do the magic other remote or smart home systems will never be capable of. Via CEC, we know the wiring details and we can discreetly control devices. No toggle roulette. Of course, just like with IR, there are a lot of edge cases in the real world and it’s by no means easy to get that done properly. But you know our engineers. I have no doubt this will be awesome once they invested some time into it.     

2. “Smarten” your device 

In the infrared world, there are solid macros that can overcome the toggle issue.  The driver team is actually doing a ton of workarounds like this in the database. We do have a mechanism in the product where the driver team can enter a small macro simulating a discrete command. Of course, we do this very carefully and only with macros that bring a good experience. The mechanism is there tough and we use it wherever it makes sense

We have built our own database in the last 3 years from scratch to solve exactly this and many other nasty cases you find with IR. Andy and the driver team have been creating something that certainly goes beyond anything in the market: We fought hard to get a ton of toggle commands that you won't find elsewhere, the same goes for codes we created and reverse engineered. 

Even more infos about our IR approach can be found here.

Here is an example: If your set-top box can be turned on with a (#1) digit, it should suit for such a macro. Basically, the (#1) key will become the “power on” command. To have a specific status, you use a macro such as (#1), wait for 3 sec and then send (power toggle) to make sure it’s turned off. This is how you get to a discrete ON and a discrete OFF command / macro. Such workarounds can make a stupid device “smart”. But you don’t need to do this manually. The way our database is built allows for such “macros” to become a simple command. If you work with Andy to make your device smarter, there is a good chance to get to a robust solution; a much more reliable solution than what automating the power toggle could ever be. Give it a shot. Everyone in the community will benefit if we make your devices smarter together. Of course, there are still some devices in the wild that do not support any of the options mentioned above - and for exactly those, we have the robust stupid device handling with the screens that offer the right buttons.

Long story told short: If you have a stupid device and you find a command that wakes the device up / turns it on, make sure to let us know!

 

A WILD EXAMPLE 

Here is an analogy to describe the weakness of automated toggling so you can follow my thoughts:

It would be a bit like having a car that can drive forward and backward, but instead of having a (D) for forward and a (R) for backward, you simply have a “change direction” button. Most of the times, it will be right and you can remember correctly what you did last. Depending on that, you know whether or not you need to press the button to drive into the direction you want. This could work in many situations but when it goes wrong, it’s pretty ugly. I prefer control. 

If you still want to automate it though you can do so of course: Via the recipe editor, you can still implement such toggle automation in the same fashion as it’s done in the competitor product mentioned above. We don’t restrict that, but we do NOT recommend it, especially if you have some non-technological users around. If it goes wrong just once, their perception will be “Sometimes, your remote does not work".

 

STUPID INPUT DEVICES

In addition to the stupid devices that do not provide discrete commands for "power on" and "power off", there are so called "stupid input devices". These do not allow discretely switching to specific inputs with specific commands, meaning inputs can only be selected via toggle/scroll of a menu.

A discussion I would be very interested to have here as well is about the hub devices such as AVR or some soundbars and target devices such as TVs or projectors. The competitor product I was referring to further up handles this extremely poor. Basically, again they try to automate something that is not meant to be automated. Confusion is guaranteed. I tried several times to create one of their "Activities" that goes to the right input, but no chance. Within NEEO, those exact devices are smart devices with discrete power and input switching, so I don't even have to deal with any hacks at all on NEEO. There are quite a few of such devices, where NEEO features discrete commands, but above mentioned competitor does not. Anyways, some devices are truly "power stupid" some truly "input stupid", some are both. 

So how and when do you send what command in order to switch to the right input of a TV that neither offers discrete power nor input switching? 

How and when do you switch the input for your AVR, even if you have a discrete command for it but power is stupid?

Assuming some of you would think about adding a power toggle into the recipe; if the power roulette went wrong (device was already on when you sent the power toggle command) you would run into a situation where the input command was ignored. Now you "repair" your device and need to find a way to send that input again. This sounds like a nightmare for a less technical user. 

How does it behave if you combine those two devices?

In the current NEEO handling of stupid devices (which is not 100% completed) those cases are ALL covered, as on the same screen you have both the manual power and all you need to switch the inputs (probably many of you have not seen that as you were dealing only with stupid source devices I assume). Also, if you have multiple stupid devices, no matter whether they are "power stupid" or "input stupid" or both, the handling to get everything ready is all on one screen.

 

SUMMARY

I much prefer a DO-THIS situation - compared to a ALWAYS-AUTOMATICALLY-DO-THE-OPPOSITE-OF-WHAT-YOU-ARE-CURRENTLY-DOING-WHICH-IS-NOT-FULLY-UNDER-MY-CONTROL-AND-IF-MY-KID-PRESSES-THE-BUTTON-ON-THE-DEVICE-ITSELF-IT’S-WRONG-FOR-SURE-AND-IT-GET’S-EVEN-MESSIER situation 😉

Sorry for not having managed to write that in a shorter post. I hope this gives you some good insights.

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  • Quick Question. Do you want us to reply in this topic when we find a device that has been marked "Stupid" and we believe it to be "Smart"? How about when we know a solution to making a device "Smart"? Or should we just send the info to support? Thanks.

    Like
    • Patrick Keegan Best is to open a seperate Topic with the Device name and a short description with link to the device manufacturer and everything you find. Then wait until the "Device driver Team" aka. Andy notice the topic and provide feedback! ;-)

      Like
  • Thank you for the insightful description of the problems associated with stupid devices and the various methods of trying to accommodate them. 

    I chuckled when I first saw the use of the word "stupid" to describe these devices! It seemed a bit too strong of a word. When we refer to today's advanced phones, we call them "smart" phones. Conversely, non-smart phones are called "dumb" phones rather than "stupid" phones.

    So I'm wondering if you intentionally used the word "stupid" instead of "dumb" to describe devices that cannot be controlled in a smart manner?   :)

    Like
      • Jan Hess
      • Jan_Hess
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Casey I too had a chuckle at that. Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black with all the problems I'm having just getting a "Works with NEEO" AVR to even turn on! It connects to my TV and Oppo DVD player but nothing to the receiver to do anything...

      Like
    • Casey Thanks for your comment. We went through very similar thoughts while working on it. Those devices cause so much trouble because they are simply not intended to be reliably controlled. So additional to the fact that those devices are not clever they suck because they don't allow a great experience. Because they are so stupid we said let's called it what it is. Stupid ;) hope this gives you some insights  

      Cool to have you here and thanks for being active here. 

      Like 1
  • So because you don't like not having discrete codes we need to suffer? Let me ask you this, do you really think you can reverse engineer every product in existence or that will come in the future? I hope not because that is just insane to believe and a unreasonable expectation. 

    You say to provide Andy with our products that are considered stupid. I have given two so far and no resolution has come as of yet. Why? Because there is no discreet codes to re engineer. And that's not going to change because a small startup expects asks them to.

    There is a solution to all this but as you said "you don't like it" i had thought neeo was a consumer product meant for the customers and to build a brand. Not a product based on what you like.

    As for you extensive data base. let's face it, it's a mess. I have x1 box. When I enter my model number it gives me no controls. Instead I had to select the basic x1. To get it to half work When Comcast had many different models of the x1 boxes. 

    You list my sound bar as a "works with Neeo device" but then during set up tell me it's a "stupid device" you have way to many generic drivers that you just seem to be "throwing at the wall and seeing what sticks" and that a disorganized mess.

    You claim to be a home automating remote but I have yet to see any real automation at this point. The one real home product you advertised was to work with nest, yet alone release you pull that away and do not currently support nest. You do not yet even support full hue integration which is such a basic 100's of apps offer it on both the play store and the app store offer it.

    Like 3
    • Jason Thanks for sharing your opinion. I disagree on most points - see my post above. Regarding NEST - it will be back shortly with nice improvement. Your X1 is discussed in an another thread so I don't comment on that here. We should try to avoid double posts. 

      Like
    • Raphael when the wives hate the stupid screens thats the kiss of death for Neeo in the real world. Our soundbar works fine with all the remotes in the house. Except Neeo. Stupid screen prevents the recipe from starting. "Press here to shut down soundbar " it says. Then recipe is dismissed. Nothing turns off but soundbar. Wife yells "piece of shit " and grabs directv remote because it works. It is in your best interest to kill off stupid screens with extreme prejudice. 

      Like 3
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Karl Smith If I got that right, we are really close to having discrete commands for your soundbar . Thanks for helping us with that! 

      Like
    • Patrick almost there.

      Like
  • StefanHmm,

     

    ok so here's my current situation. I use Harmony with a mix of Simple and state aware devices. Required some work around but works great after tuning. If it doesn't work on one of the device my Wife will enter the help wizard which solves the situation quickly. 

     

    I prefer this additional action in the 5% of cases where needed to non automation on my dumb devices, just my 2 cents.

     

    BUT I also have 3 incredible smart devices (to NUC with several software and one VDR based on linux) that I use variations of RC5 remotes to control. Because I'm in charge on the command mapping I can controll them explicitely in Harmony, I can specify power-on and power-off commands and even have a force-off controll for the "leave-the-house" macro. I hoped the same flexibilliy (at least) on Neeo, but I believe at the moment I need to ask support to create a custom driver for my IOT devices ?

     

    Stefan

    Like
    • Stefan Marx I also have a leave the house script, if there is no one at home then all devices are turned off. I'm using homey and my homey app for this to control my neeo. My app has a feature to turn off all active recipes.

      with only the NEEO this is possible as well. Just create a recipe and say turn off the lights, press power off buttons etc.

      Like
    • Niels de Klerk you totally missed my point. 

       

      A script like this is sure possible with neeo IF discrete commands are available. 

       

      My point was, why do you like to ask manual interaction whenever a device is used that has no discrete codes. The better alternative is to assume states and provide a assisted fix mode in case it got it wrong 

       

      like harmony does since 9+ years

      Like 2
    • Stefan Marx I wouldn't advice going away from home and using an away recipe that has a power toggle command. Chances are there that you will turn your devices on instead of off.

      Like
    • Niels de Klerk   You still don't get my point. NOT OFFERING the choice of running a script that works 90% of the time and Requesting manual steps 100% of the time is a marketing campaign or a questionable opinion but not what I would prefer. 

       

      I agree on the turn of. If a important device is a dump one I would add a homematic switched power socket to it.

      Like 3
    • Stefan Marx We actually do allow you to use the toggle commands in any recipes. There is no restriction. The only thing we are saying is that we don't recommend to do so. Thanks

      Like
    • Raphael 

      sorry i don't yet have a device. Waiting for the EMEA delivery. 

       

      As far as I understood from the entries here the brain will not keep a track of the current state so the toggle commands will be executed every time and not conditional based on the state prediction?

      Like
      • Jason
      • Jason
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Raphael I understand that I can add power toggle and scroll input commands. But what good do they do if Neeo does not rwmeber if the device is on or off, or what input the device was last set on? It may need two input commands or just one depending on what,was used last. Neeo does not provide the ability to know thus. 

      Like
  • Wow! This sounds like BS to me. 

    I have one of the competitor’s devices and a fairly complicated setup- multiple set-top boxes (4), two DVR’s, automated lighting, HDMI switchers, Blu-ray- and I rarely if ever have the remote set the wrong state when switching. My interaction with that remote is hitting the activity I want, magic happening, then controlling the devices. Every once in while, maybe 3-4 times a year, I will have to fix something and that is usually because someone used a different remote to do something first. 

    With NEEO’S approach I am bothered every time I touch the thing. I have to interact with it and set inputs or power on devices. If NEEO is going to be the only remote you use for all your equipment then assuming that all the equipment is off when you first run a recipe is fine if the last thing you did with the remote was turn everything off.

    From there you can safely assume the states of all the devices because you always know their input state or power status. The idea you can’t is ridiculous, my Harmony remote proves this ever time I pick it up. The only time this paradigm fails is if someone uses a different remote to perform an action or the smart remote fails to properly set power or input states. Both of the latter scenarios are rare. More rare than the current nag and “stupid’ screens you are now presented with. 

    I suppose if you guys are sticking with this idea your remote will never work for me. Even my wife has complained about how dumb the remote functionality is and she isn’t a techy person. She just doesn’t liked being annoyed every time she picks up the remote. She, like all people, expect that when you hit the Blu-ray button the next thing she sees on the display will be the Blu-ray menu. Not a puzzling blank screen where you then have to turn on some device or set an input from the remote. 

    It’s a shame really because the NEEO is a beautiful piece of hardware. Just one more beautiful remote for my junk pile that has failed to live up to its promises.

    Like 7
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      I have the same problem with Neeo,   Tony L  - coming from a Harmony One remote, myself.

       

      On Neeo, I should have a few shortcuts on the Home Screen:

       

      One shortcut would say TV - whenever I choose the TV shortcut on the remote's Home screen, the Neeo Remote/Brain should turn the TV, the cable box, the Soundbar and the HDMI switch ON and to the correct inputs. 

       

      There should be another shortcut I created named, Apple TV, where when I select it, the Apple TV, TV, Soundbar and HDMI Switch are all turned on and set to the appropriate inputs. 

       

      Another shortcut would be called Bluray - whenever I choose the Bluray shortcut on the remote's home screen, the TV, Bluray player, Soundbar and HDMI Switch are all powered on and to the correct inputs.

       

      The Neeo Brain should be able to keep track of all devices that are turned on, what inputs they are currently set at and what needs to be switched (instead of turned on) when switching from TV to Bluray or Apple TV.

       

      I find this hard to believe that the Neeo system does not work this way.  This is EXTREMELY disappointing.   

      Like 1
    • Randy N this is exactly how I expected NEEO would work. But clearly, it isn’t. Already disappointed after having it a few hours. And why can’t I just control the devices separately when I want/need to? That would solve 100% of the cases when a recipe went wrong.

      Like 2
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Steven Willems I think I read somewhere on Planet Neeo that the problem Neeo is having is that Logitech owns some patent that allows the Harmony devices to keep track of the status of each device (IR?)...Seems like there has got to be another way to do this and that is what Neeo needs (IMO).

      I was able to find out that you can edit and change even basic on/off recipes created by Neeo for each device.  Hopefully, Neeo will continue to improve, its new - but I haven't thrown away my Harmony yet.  ;)  I do really like the simplicity of telling Alexa to turn my Apple TV on/off and everything is turned on/off and switched to the correct inputs, thanks to Neeo.

      Like
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Steven Willems I also found that after I added my devices, I then tried to use the devices shortcuts created, but had to go through the wiring setup.  Once I did that for each device, I then was able to create recipes so everything is powered on and set to the correct input.  Like what I mentioned in my original post.

      Like
    • Randy N The question being ... I had a Philips Pronto that was able to do this at least a decade before Harmony existed. The implementation of this is a state machine. The concept for this has been around for almost 50 years prior to Harmony existing. If Raphael has the experience that he claims, he would know that multiple remote control vendors have managed to do this. He would also know that the implementation is extremely reliable, despite his dubious claims above. Doesn't Neeo have a legal team? Patents can be invalidated based on prior art. Logitech has almost orphaned Harmony, I think a strongly worded letter pointing out prior art would keep them quiet, without the need for any court cases. Logitech has repeatedly demonstrated a lack of interest in spending money on Harmony.

      Like
  • Hi Raphael. I reposting here because I can't figure out who to address my issue to. I have several devices that will not work with my NEEO. Granted, these are older devices (all of which are fully controlled by my Harmony remote), But I don't see why my NEEO can't do the same.  Here is a complete list of them:  YAMAHA HTR-5550 A/V (not on the list of devices so it can't be added), SAMSUNG SMT-C5320 CABLE BOX (added but gets the "Dumb device" screen-not operable), SAMSUNG LN40B650T1F TV ("Dumb device" screen - not operable), SCIENTIFIC ATLANTA EXPLORER 8300HD CABLE BOX ("Dumb device" screen - not operable). As you can see, this is a pretty long list. I'm using my Harmony in the meantime (thank God I didn't get rid of it prematurely). But my goal is to use my NEEO exclusively. Please help me!

    Like 1
    • Anthony Roper I'm sure Andy and the driver team can add these. I know it's a lot of work but if you want to have a device supported it works best to create a seperate post for each device. If for any reason it still hasn't been addressed or answered then you can link Patrick to your post. He can assign it to the driver team.

      Like
    • Niels de Klerk Thanks for the feedback. Am I posting correctly by just replying to existing posts or is there a more efficient way to do it?

      Like
    • Anthony Roper well I linked both andy and patrick so I'm sure they will react. But best way to do also for your self to keep track off the progress is to create a new post for each device or to react to a post if there is already a post for your specific device but chances are slim there is a post allready.

      Like
  • Hello Raphael. I am looking to expand the capability of the Creative DDTS-100. While I can toggle mute, control volume, it would be useful to be able to shift inputs, signal type, what decoder to engage, etc.

    I found a list of hex commands (https://sourceforge.net/p/lirc-remotes/code/ci/master/tree/remotes/creative/DDTS-100.lircd.conf) that should control all the dumb controls. It looks like the commands simply cycle through their functions, but having those commands would still be useful.

    Thanks for any help possible.

    Like
    • Christopher Kulesa I'm looping in Andy who will look into that. Thanks

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Christopher Kulesa 

      Many thanks! I'll let you know as soon as this is ready!

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Christopher Kulesa 

      Hi again,

      All the commands included in the file you have sent us are already part of the driver of your device. Let me know if you have any questions regarding the setup.

      Thanks!

      Like
  • Dear Raphael,

    Dear NEEO Team,

    First of all, let me start with thanking you not only for the explanation, but also for the passion and the perfectionism you obviously pursue.

    I understand your arguments and tend to agree with regards to messy scenarios (especially related to input toggling). I furthermore agree that a perfect setup would not include any stupid devices or, in case there are no discrete IR codes available, such devices would reliably be handled e.g. by HDMI-CEC, IP or other means.

    However, unless such solutions work on a broad scale I would respectfully but strongly disagree with regards to the automation of power toggling for several reasons.

    Firstly, the "messy scenario" argument does not really apply to power toggling devices. In the worst case, the device would not automatically be turned to the correct power state and a simple user interaction would be required (a single manual power toggle command). With your current approach, you are making this "messy scenario" the standard situation after launching a recipe.

    To compare the situations with or without automation of power toggling: 

    • Without automated power toggling, you would require the user to manually put the device in the correct power state on every launch and every exit of a recipe. In addition, the user would need to take even one more manual step when exiting the recipe (first manually toggling the power, afterwards confirming to leave the recipe). In total, this requires three manual interactions for each and everytime a recipe is launched and exited.
      Benefit: In case the device was in the "wrong" state before, the user will not have to manually interact to bring the device to the "right" power state.
       
    • With automated power toggling, the user would only need to interact in case something went wrong. Benefit: In the vast majority of cases, the device should automatically behave correctly. In case it does not, the user would be required to do, what you expect to do him in any case without automation.

    To remain with your example of a car: Without automated power toggling, the car would always start in reverse gear and ask you to manually shift to drive on every start. When turning the car off, it would not do so without asking you first to put the shifting to "reverse". Afterwards it would ask you to turn the car off once more (leave recipe). With automatic power toggling, the car would automate this in 95% of the cases. In those 5% of the cases where it would not, the driver could easily manually shift.

    Secondly, I strongly believe that the argument regarding unexperienced users works in the exact opposite direction. I think that the current way of handling stupid devices does neither match consumer expectations nor is being found intuitive by technically unexperienced persons. Not only because this is my personal conviction, but also as my little (completely non-representative) field study confirmed this:

    Neither my wife, nor my parents in law would understand the way NEEO handles stupid devices right now. They did not understand why not all devices where turned on and watching TV would not work. Only after I explained to them the required interaction after launching a recipe they would be able to watch TV.

    Still, they did neither understand that they would need to manually turn of certain devices again and confirm to leave a recipe. Instead, they just pressed the power button once and would complain to me that the new remote would again not work correctly.

     

    Finally, while I very much appreciate the explanation provided, I think just the mere requirement for such explanation shows the issue: From my perception, really intutive devices should not require any additional explanations. ;-)
     

    To conclude, I would therefore tend to rather think about the most unobstrusive and intuitive way to handle the possibility to manually intervene in the rare cases power toggling goes wrong, instead of requiring manual user interaction by default.

    This would have the additional benefit that such solution may equally provide for help, in case the automation of a non-stupid device goes wrong in rare cases (e.g. because the IR command was not correctly received etc.).

    I've got some ideas in that regard, which I think would provide a great solution and which could - from my perception - make NEEO really stand out UX wise as well. For the sake of the length of this post I'll drop them on another occasion.

    Have a nice Sunday everyone!

    Best regards,

    Joseph

    Like 13
    • Raphael as you allready know, i'm fully at the site of Joseph Schwartz with this Situation!

      Means: Let the Remote send the Power Toggle, if the remotes messes it up, let the User be able to correct it. so the screen is not fully nonsense, but you don't need to click after and before launching a recipe each time!

      Like 4
    • Joseph Schwartz Markus Mahr Thanks a lot for your detailed response. I absolutely understand where you are coming from. At the end of the day our goal is to only have setups that rock.

      What we are coming up with on the CEC side will be a lot better than any of all the bad toggle options in the market as there is a true status available via CEC. Basically a majority of devices that are "stupid" in any of the competitors product will be made truly smart. The couple of devices that will then still remind stupid (very few) can either be handled the robust-but-one-additional-click-NEEO way or with toggle commands (including state awareness). We will allow the full choice. Hope this helps. Thanks so much for being so active here!

      Like 1
      • WB
      • denim_chair
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Raphael  I am not an owner but considering picking one up on ebay or from a backer.  Which of these options is available today?  I was not clear on that.  CEC seems like it is a future feature...the "robust" way is available now...what about the toggle with state awareness?  That is future?

      Like
    • Joseph Schwartz nice write up. i fully agree with you

      Like 3
    • Raphael can you explain to me then how the CEC would work in my setup; TV (smart) <- receiver  (smart) <- cable box (stupid, only one HDMI out) 

      How would i tie in the neeo in this case?

      Are you considering my idea i gave for the stupid device handling? Which is as simple as "leave everything like it is now, unless the recipe includes a 'show controls of' action"? This would mean by default it would be your vision, yet still gives the user a choice of overriding it.

      You could also just add the "show dumb device screen" as a last action to a recipe that contains dumb devices. That way the users can also overwrite it with their own choices.

      Like
      • Matt B
      • Matt_B
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Raphael  Assuming a person has the ability to connect everything HDMI.  I don't want to have my Neeo brain HDMI connected to everything. I can't in the way my environment is setup.  TV wall mounted with remote Directv unit using HDMI over Cat6 extender to a equipment closet.  That would cause me to have IR repeaters through the house instead. Not everyone has all their equipment right in the same place. And it also assumes everything has proper CEC control, which I've tried in some settings today on devices I have and it doesn't all play nice. 

      Like
    • Matt B CEC will not replace IR. It will just be a powerful addition. There is no plan to remove or reduce the infrared possibilities in any way. What's the model # of the devices you have?

      Like
      • Matt B
      • Matt_B
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Raphael Thanks!  I have some of it listed in another post.  I'm having stupid device issues with my JBL SB400 currently.  It powers on when the input is selected and if I want my directv controls, I'm currently putting up with a stupid device page on screen of the remote when I just want the directv remote options.    My future thoughts though are around how best to control devices in multiple rooms. I have a centralized entertainment closet with remote devices connected.   Do I extend IR anyway to a tx/rx in each room?  Do I get a brain for each room? What is Neeo's standpoint of how best to achieve that?   I have a Sony TV with Apple TV and JBL sound bar (with HDMI switch built in)  in one room.  In another I have a Roku and LG TV.   Soon in another I'll have a new TV and Marantz NR1600.  I also wish there was more control/features for scenes and other routines that could be built to do things from the remote. Features for Hue seems to be low. On/Off and dim.   I know you guys are working hard and I waited for a long time like everyone else. Just a little disappointed it the lack of ability to control some of these smarter features of the devices I own right away out of the box.  I know this is really the beginning for you guys and you'll get there. 

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Matt B 

      Thanks for your additional feedback!

      How long does the JBL device need to power on until it accepts a Power toggle command? I'm pretty sure we can create a macro and smarten your device up.

      Also, we are going to add the NR1600 as quickly as possible.

      Thanks!

      Like
      • Matt B
      • Matt_B
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Andy See post https://planet.neeo.com/t/y7f54m/stupid-device-prompt

      The JBL powers on instantly when you select the HDMI input you want.  I'm not sure by what you mean time to power toggle.  But due to some weird HDMI issues, I need to make sure the soundbar powers on before the HDMI (over Cat6 extension) signal from the directv powers on or I don't get any audio.   The recipe I have pictured in the thread linked above works great. Except I get the sound bar stupid screen unnecessarily.  It doesn't provide any value and needs to be dismissed every time. 

      Like
      • Matt B
      • Matt_B
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Andy Oh and also to be more specific it's a Marantz NR1605 

      Like
      • Matt B
      • Matt_B
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Matt B It's the "show directv controls" part of the recipe that makes the soundbar power prompt come up for some reason. 

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Matt B 

      Thanks for all your feedback!

      The Marantz NR1605 is already included in our database. You should be fine. In case you have any issue controlling this AVR let me know.

      For the soundbar - I have added INPUT HDMI 1 as a power on command. The power off recipe contains INPUT HDMI 1 -> Wait 3 Seconds -> POWER TOGGLE. We do that to make sure that every time you press POWER OFF, the device is on. This way we can make sure that POWER TOGGLE does power off the device always and you will not get out of sync. This is the reason why I have asked you the delay question. If the macro does not work, we may have raise the 3 second delay a bit. The new data will appear around 1PM CET. Please update your device according to this guide - and the stupid screen will be gone!

      Like
    • Raphael What is CEC?

      Like
      • Tom Mandel
      • Tom_Mandel
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Karl Smith Consumer  Electronics Control - I believe it allows 2 way data flow through HDMI from a single remote.

      Like 1
    • Karl Smith HDMI-CEC  is a way of controlling devices over HDMI. Most HDMI equipped devices support it. Some companies have a deferent name for it, making it less known among consumers.

      Like 1
    • WB My current best guess is Q1 2018. Thanks

      Like
  • I agree with the sentiment of this post and not having to play toggle roulette, but then why is there only a “toggle mute” command available for most devices and in the SDK?  I find it hard to believe that there aren’t devices out there that support distinct “mute off” and “mute on” commands.  For example, I was hoping to do so with my Vizio P65-C1 TV but I can only toggle. Maybe this is an IR limitation, but I’m not even able to extend it myself via the SDK and the following commands with the current implementation. https://github.com/exiva/Vizio_SmartCast_API/blob/master/README.md

    Like
  • Still waiting for my Neeos and I really hope I will not run into any "stupid" devices when it arrives. They have not acted stupid for several years so I hope they will not loose their intelligence when Neeo enters my house. :)

    My reasoning behind home automation is to press less buttons in my life. Whenever I have to click an extra button it really pisses me off. So I have liked the Harmony-approach so far as I only need to interact the very few times something in the scripts messes up. 
     

    For this reason I am always for letting the user decide if they want to use a smart remote with dumb devices or using a dumb remote with smart devices. Let it be an option for "advanced" users to decide how they want the interaction to work. You could hide the advanced option deep down in some menu to not risk your intended user choosing it.

    Same reasoning I also apply when it comes to the physical buttons of the remote. Let advanced users use the full potential of the device and use any button to their liking (fully mapable, long-press etc...). Just hide the option well. There is a topic for this already here: https://planet.neeo.com/t/36fmht/long-press-double-click-and-other-extended-button-functionalities

    Like 3
  • Hey Raphael . Until this issue gets sorted, any chance we can remove the term 'stupid' from the remote and use another word? (Especially when this unit hits the general public).

    How about 'You have a Simple device' or 'You have a non-smart device...' Or use a totally different phrase such as: "Woah... Looks like something's not right...".

    I think the word 'Stupid' should be totally avoided due to the various connotations it can imply and none of them seem particularly positive.

    E.g. The first time a newcomer see's this message they might think: "Actually Neeo I don't have any stupid devices but you're not clever enough to know that" or "So if you're smart enough to recognise I have 'stupid' devices, shouldn't you be smart enough to still connect to them?" or even "What the hell is a stupid device???".

    Just my two cents 

    Like 6
    • Brian Phillips Guys you are making a big problem from nothing , What will happen if they called it "not so smart " or whats ever  , Nothing will happen so think of something  new !!

      Like 1
    • ABDULHADIKH As a native English speaker the word 'Stupid' comes across as slightly arrogant. Not that I personally give a flying ***k about what language is used, but I do care about Neeo and how it will be interpreted by others (i.e. the general public) who have not been following developments of this magnificent product for the past 2+ years. 

      If all (and I mean absolutely all) issues had been resolved and Neeo connected to everyone's devices flawlessly then I would agree they deservedly have the right to use the word 'Stupid' or perhaps something even stronger in their notification screen. 

      As it stands, this is not the case and I believe that type of language should be reserved for when Neeo is in such a position (which they are working on diligently to achieve). 

      With that in mind, when a young unknown start-up (to the general masses) comes along and calls your device stupid, it simply cannot be interpreted positively especially if Neeo fails to connect to your allegedly 'stupid' device.

      My reason for being here is to pass comment on anything I believe would help improve the experience of Neeo to potential customers whether it be about the hardware, software or the political or emotional aspects of the product/company. 

      What I'm trying to say here is my opinions come from a place of trying to help Neeo and the team 'launch' Neeo in the best light possible and to eradicate all traces of negativity no matter how slight in magnitude. 

      Neeo as a company should remain impartial during communication to their customers about the capabilities of (said customers) existing equipment especially when the communication originates from the product itself. They should not express biased opinion & should come across more 'helpful' if anything. Calling a device 'stupid' in their forums or any other medium is a different story & in my opinion much more acceptable.

      Even with their mass domination of the smartphone market, and guaranteed sales (in the millions) of any flagship product they release, do you think Samsung or Apple would risk popping up a message on their phones like: "Your Wi-Fi router's stupid" if it was unable to connect??? Doubt it...

      Like 3
      • Edward Zwart
      • Software Developer
      • Ezeedub
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 4
      • Reported - view

      I agree 100% with this. There is no world in which NEEO has massive commercial success AND it continues to refer to its customers previous purchases as "stupid".

      Like 4
  • We are working on the language we use to handle stupid devices. While I can't promise yet that the term "stupid" will completely disappear, we agree with you that the screens are not always clear and self-explaining.

    Thanks a lot for all your inputs so far, we do take these seriously and we read all of them. We will look into how we could further improve that so that it fits your wishes better.

    Like 2
    • Patrick  Thanks for considering a different naming. My guess is that it won't fare well with the "general public" once you hit the mass market. Especially for Harmony users. My better half will certainly complain about it once I receive my Neeo and replace the good old Harmony to control our home theater...

      I'm also part of the crowd asking for smarter toggle handling as with Harmony remotes: please PLEASE give us the advanced / unsupported / geek only option to handle toggle devices as smart as possible with remembering the last state. HDMI CEC won't be an option for everyone and every device (placement of the brain, CEC quirks, non HDMI devices). Thanks.

      Like 3
      • Malcolm Cox
      • Neighborhood Home Theater Guru
      • Malcolm_Cox
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick 

      Good morning Patrick. I have a blu-ray player that NEEO is reporting as stupid. However when the screen prompts you to hit the power button manually, the onscreen button for power on with the NEEO actually works. In short, it seems like the so called "stupid device" (hate the nomenclature) is smart after all. How can we remedy this? 

      Like
    • Malcolm Cox a device is a “stupid” device when power on and power off are using the same command. If you would press the button again then it will turn off. Using automation will cause issues when the device state differs with the expected state. So there is no smart way of automating it.

      i don’t like the wording either but these companies are stupid for not providing descrete power commands.

      Like
      • Malcolm Cox
      • Neighborhood Home Theater Guru
      • Malcolm_Cox
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Niels de Klerk 

      Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense. So no foreseeable fixes? 

      Like
    • Niels de Klerk While this is true, it'S also possible to do it the harmony way ... Neeo has decided against this. 

       

      It's not nice and has other issues. But works perfectly at home and every user can actualy use this. (only required once a month or so, if one switch command didn't happen or there was a power outage or ..... Also sometimes after a harmony upgrade.

       

      so after all, not perfect but also workable.

      just sayin

      Like
    • Malcolm Cox If the device has No separate power on and off commands then it might not be possible. There is an alternatieve option. Could you try If the device can be turned on with other buttons (commands) If so state them here. The driver team can use those to create a workaround.

      Like
    • Stefan Marx true.

       haring the choice to opt the one or the other would be better. 

      Like
  • Why not letting users give the IR code to NEEO direct (Learn feature)

    And about the stupid devices we can make them smart

    the best example is what logitech did with harmony 

    Most of stupid tv will remain in the same input 

    So if user have to  select the input NEEO should emulate what user will do to get the result 

     

    Please Note :I don't know if NEEO can do this thing since don't find my TV (wich is stupid )

     

    So i am hoping the NEEO can do it !

    Like 1
  • ABDULHADIKH  Which TV do you own?

    Like
  • No... This is stupid. There's no power control in the recipe to allow or remove this. My comcast X1 "stupid" box is always on. I don't need this at all...  it's a total extra step I have clear out to continue.  Stupid.  Maybe if Neeo was state aware, it wouldn't need such stupid activity protection.

    Like 2
    • Geoff Gautier Neeo can not be state aware unless they don't pay Logitech for their Patent.

      If the Box in general is an always on device, this needs to be fixed in the NEEO Database, this is a very fast fix, witch will be done by Andy if you inform him. I'm sure he will reply as soon as he is back in the Office!

      Like
    • Markus Mahr 

      Has it ever been confirmed to be a patent related issue? I have seen this mentioned more than once but never confirmed from NEEO.

      I am still not convinced regarding the scope and the territorial validity.

      Like
    • Joseph Schwartz I know that logitech has the Patent for the state aware Feature for a Remote witch stows the State after switching it. I don't know the coverage of this patent, but i think a company like them are for sure hold this for a worldwide thing.

      I don't know if it only covers the "in remote stowage" because at neeo, everything is stowed in the Brain and not on the remote, but i'm not a law men, so i don't can say that it is save to use it without paying them.

      Like
      • Derek G
      • Derek_G
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

       Andy , Raphael , or others: until the Neeo Database is updated to reflect that the X1 boxes are always on, is there a way to hide this "Your Cable is a stupid device..." screen from showing after the Recipe runs every time? If not, maybe that should be considered - it could run similar to how Logitech handles it so that the remote always assumes everything worked correctly unless the user hits the "Help" button on the screen. That could eliminate this screen altogether and only show up if the user requests help after the Recipe runs.

      Like 2
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Derek G 

      Hi Derek,

      I just saw that you wrote that the X1 is called stupid. Can you please send me a screenshot of this screen? The X1 is not stupid - I have just added it here; no "stupid screen" appears and discrete power commands are included in this driver.

      Like
      • Derek G
      • Derek_G
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Andy You are correct, this is no longer the case anymore. Initially, I was using a Pacer model (PX013ANM ) rather than searching for X1 and it had the "Stupid Screen" show up. I'm not sure if the PX013ANM still has the screen or not, but I have since switched to the XC1-A and there is no "Stupid Device" screen. Sorry, I should have updated this thread earlier, but thanks for looking into this.

      Like
  • There is no way Logitech has a patent on this. They may have a patent on their algorithm that allows harmony remotes to be state aware but they do not have the overall state aware patented. And as they say, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

    This is a joke to even consider? Yoy mean to say absolutley no other remote offers state aware macros? Show me the patent # if it's true?  

    Like 1
    • Jason Here you find the actual Patent for the State aware from Logitech:

      https://www.google.com/patents/US20030164787

      As you see also under the Linked Patents, they have much more PAtents for the Multimedia Section then you may consider. Some of them can be used for free or as a normal way, but the state aware feature is patented in three different ways:

      first by watching it with help of additional help (power consumption measurment

      second by saying if i powered it on and user doesn't complain, it is on

      third by using ste aware coes and track the usage of it

      Like
  • That's a interesting read. Thanks for sharing. 

    However the patent you posted is owned by universal electronics. Not Logitech. Logitech used to license the patent (and others) until a few years Back when they stopped paying. Then UEI brought a case against Logitech. 

    This says a few things.

    1. The patent can be be used by others, most likely for a license fee.

    2. This is only a patent on a way to be state aware. This is like saying Apple had a patent on touch I'd. Yet most android phones offer fingerprint scanners, or that McDonald's has a patent on chicken nuggets, yet BK makes theirs a different way and can sell them. 

    More specifically Logitech stopped paying UEI. Because they found the patents were no longer applicable to harmony devices, or were expired. meaning Logitech obviously found another way to approach being state aware without infringing one UEI patents. 

    http://news.logitech.com/press-release/corporate/logitech-disputes-patent-infringement-claim-universal-electronics

    As I said, their is more than one way to skin a cat. If Neeo wants to be the next all in one replacement remote and take on harmony they need to think outside the box. Or at the least contact UEI about the patent to at least try to compare harmonys current functions.

    Like
    • Jason Sorry for linking the wrong company. That was overseen by me. But if you look into the linked ones you find the following entrys:

      US8026789 16. Juni 2004 27. Sept. 2011 Logitech Europe S.A. State-based remote control system

       

             
               
               
      US8531276 25. Apr. 2006 10. Sept. 2013 Logitech Europe S.A. State-based remote control system
      US8653950 14. Febr. 2011 18. Febr. 2014 Logitech Europe S.A. State-based remote control system
      US8674814 20. Aug. 2007 18. März 2014 Logitech Europe S.A. State-based remote control system

      I don't read them, but also i guess these are not the only ones!

       

      If you allready said, you can find a way to get rid of the patent if you need to. That was what i mean, when i write, you can simple replace the stored on remote to stored on brain and it is a totally different thing.

      Like 1
      • Jason
      • Jason
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Markus Mahr thanks for the clarification on the patents. And thanks you for the discussion. I learned a few new things and that's always a good thing.

      But this just proves my point, there is more than one way to accomplish a goal. This discussion alone shows two companies that have done atleast that with different means. 

      Don't get me wrong, Neeo is a beautiful piece of hardware. And I respect what the team is trying to accomplish. I have had a few personal discussions with Raphael and I can see he is clearly very passionate about what team Neeo is trying to create (to A bit of a fault)

      He did try to do what I think he truly believed was the right thing to try to appease me. Ultimately I still hope Neeo can one day deliver on what they have dreamed off. But I still don't see why a typical consumer would pay more for a Neeo, that offers less functionality than a harmony. 

      They have the hardware beat. (More like destroyed) as does savant. But until the functionality of either can at the least match the competitors I don't see how they expect to be a serious player in the universal remote game. 

      Like 1
    • Jason I also enjoy the Communication with all of the Entrys i reply here. I will go so forward, that i check the Planet a few times a day and check all topic if something is interessting for me.

      I believe that this is what this was designed and meant for! Also enjoyed the direct confersation with you about this.

      I (until know) didn't have the ability to meet someone of the Team in Person, but is also got some interessting confersations with both Patrick and Raphael as well. Also i'm fully on your side, but i see (hopefully not to far away) that NEEO will become a serious competitor besides the two big Players in the Market, if they get a Firmware that is capable of the features wanted and published by them!

      The Hardware itself is very impressive and a big step in the right direction. Hopefully (due to the small amount of people behind it) they wil not overrolled by such a big player like Amazon or buyed by other companys. At least i hope that the passion the Team actually put into this Product is capable of holding this thing up and push it forward.

      Like 1
  • Is there a way to find out if a device is considered stupid before I get my NEEO? My TV in question is in the “works with NEEO” database, is that already enough?

    Like 1
    • Maik post the make and model and ill take a look 

      Like 1
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Maik 

      There's not yet a mechanism for this. But that's a very good idea!

      Right now, just post your model. I'll look that up for you. Thanks!

      Like
      • Maik
      • Maik
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Andy Thank you, my TV is the "LG 55LF630V". While you're at it, could you also please confirm if the Bose Lifestyle 38 is considered dumb? And the Apple TV 4? These 3 devices are what I hope to easily combine:

      • click one icon "Live TV" on the Neeo remote to turn on the Bose in TV mode and turn on the LG with input set to "live tv" (even better, have separate icons per channel) and only control the TV with the Neeo remote (physical buttons to switch channels)
      • click an icon "Apple TV" to turn on the Bose in TV mode and turn on the LG with input set to HDMI1 and turn on Apple TV and only use the Neeo remote to control Apple TV (physical buttons to move left/right/up/down and confirm -> Apple TV 3 style)
      • click an icon "DVD" to turn on the Bose in DVD mode and turn on the LG with input set to Composite and only use the Neeo remote physical buttons to control the DVD on screen menus
      • Use the Neeo remote physical buttons to control volume of the Bose Lifestyle 38 in any of these scenarios

      Is this something that I can set up with Neeo?

      Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Maik Another trick is to just add these devices to your NEEO, then start the recipe created. if you get the according screens for stupid devices, the device does not have commands for discrete power on/off.

      LG 55LF630V => Not stupid

      Apple TV => Not stupid. It basically does not have commands to get turned on and off. See this thread for more information.

      Bose Lifestyle 38 => Not stupid

       

      When you are talking about "modes" on Bose, do I assume correctly that this basically means turning it on and selecting the right input? If that is the case, all the scenarios you describe work with NEEO.

      Ar you using your TV as a tuner or do you have a separate set-top box too?

      We call scenarios "recipes". ON your NEEO, just go ahead and all devices. Once you start the recipes the first time NEEO will guide you through the wiring, all recipes will then be created automatically. You should then be set up and good to go.

      How do you have your devices wired? Apple TV -> Bose -> TV? Or everything to the TV and then that goes to the Bose AVR, optical or HDMI Arc?

      Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Maik Sorry for my first hint, doesn't make a lot of sense to check by adding devices to your NEEO if you don't have a NEEO 😊

      Like
      • Maik
      • Maik
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Patrick Yes, when I said "modes" I meant I select the right input on the Bose. I do use my TV as a cable tuner, no separate set-top box. My devices are all wired to the TV (Apple TV via HDMI, the Bose's video signal for its embedded DVD player via composite), and I get the sound from the TV back to the Bose via optical. The Bose then takes care of my 5.1 speaker setup. The TV's speakers are turned off.

      Like 1
      • Maik
      • Maik
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick No worries about your first hint, I would appreciate a second hint on when I will get my NEEO combos (1 own kickstarter, and one pledge taken over) :-)

      Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Maik I think your all good to go. The only thing that may be necessary is manually adding the commands for your Soundbar into the recipes. Once you have your NEEO we'll happily assist for that.

      Like
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Wessel Otter Andy Can this info be included in the search results of the Works with Neeo website?  Maybe a smal indicator saying this device is Samrt or one that says this device is stupid?

      Like
  • Thanks Patrick . I assume you mean the Bose AV when you say sound bar. I’ll get back when my NEEO is there.

    Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Maik Correct 👍

      Like
  • I understand the issue and am fine with having an extra button to push when powering on.

    However, when powering *OFF*, can't Neeo just assume that the device is on, and send a power toggle anyway? That is just as good as sending a discrete "off" command to a "smart" device.

    For rare cases in which the command wasn't received, or if the device got turned off by some other means, the toggle button could be made available on the home screen (or alternatively, displayed for 5 seconds before returning to home screen) so that the user can turn it off manually.

    Like
    • On my Neeo, I added the DVR power toggle to my "on" recipe, so I don't have to hit the "on" button every time. But the remote still presents the extra screen, which is unnecessary. It would be nice to disable that screen (optionally) so the recipe goes straight to a functional screen. I added a DVR power toggle shortcut so I can manually override it if it comes up wrong, which is seldom (since my "off" recipe also has an added command to toggle the power).

      Like 1
  • Raphael

    I have the same problem with Neeo as many do on this support thread and I am coming from a being a two (2) generation Harmony remote user, myself.

    This product is NOT doing what it said it would do.  Just to give an example of what the Harmony remotes do easily and accurately and these tasks should be able to be setup on Neeo's Home Screen instead of all the buttons you currently have to press to get to watch/listen one device.

    On Neeo, I should have a few shortcuts on the Home Screen:

     

    One shortcut would say TV - whenever I choose the TV shortcut on the remote's Home screen, the Neeo Remote/Brain should turn the TV, the cable box, the Soundbar and the HDMI Switch ON and to the correct inputs. 

     

    There should be another shortcut I created named, Apple TV, where when I select it, the TV, the Apple TV, Soundbar and HDMI Switch are all turned on and set to the appropriate inputs. 

     

    Another shortcut would be called Bluray - whenever I choose the Bluray shortcut on the remote's home screen, the TV, Bluray player, Soundbar and HDMI Switch are all powered on and to the correct inputs.

     

    The Neeo Brain should be able to keep track of all devices that are turned on, what inputs they are currently set at and what needs to be switched (instead of turned on) when switching from TV to Bluray or Apple TV.

    I find this hard to believe that the Neeo system does not work this way.  This is EXTREMELY disappointing.

    Like 2
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Raphael Ahhh, started to figure out reciepes.  :)  This is gonna be fun.

      Tony L Have you looked at creating a recipe yet?  

      Like 1
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Randy Nieukirk I am glad you found the recipes, basically, NEEO is doing pretty much exactly what you described in your post above. Once you have added your devices, NEEO will start asking a few questions and will then automatically create and show the recipes you need. You may then still go ahead and edit these according to your needs.

      If you need further help, let us know.

       

      Note to myself 😉: 3000th post on Planet NEEO

      Like 1
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick Thank you for your offer!  Products without manuals are irritating.  :)

       

      i am currently waiting on getting Neeo to recognize my HDMI Switch, since I cannot do anything until there is a driver for it.  I have put in a request. :)

      Like
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick This morning I tried to turn everything on using the Apple TV recipe I created and NOTHING comes on.  The Brain is located 10 feet away from my home theater setup and all IRs are reachable, but when I choose the Apple TV recipe from the remote - NOTHING happens.  Why is nothing happening?

      Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Randy Nieukirk Has that been working before? Could you please check the unpair procedure described over here ?

      Like
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick i have deleted everything and I am going to start again.  I will update once I get the devices and recipes created.  Thank you for all your help!! :)

      Like
    • Patrick If I'm understanding Randy's comment above correctly, he wants the recipes to be able to work on state differences. For example, if "TV" recipe has the TV, amp, and cable tuner on, and "DVD" has the TV, amp, and DVD/BD player on, then, if you are already in the TV recipe, you should be able to activate the DVD recipe, which will switch off the cable box and switch on the DVD/BD player, and change the amp and TV to the correct inputs for the new mode.

      Harmony does do this but I don't currently see a way for Neeo to do it. Either you have to exit the first recipe before activating the second (thereby wasting steps as the amp and TV both will cycle off then on again), or you go straight through the second recipe (thereby leaving the cable box on). It's a small but very nice distinction.

      Like 1
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 2
      • Reported - view

      Patrick  Any word on getting rid of the Stupid notifications (i.e. when powering on/off a device)?  Since all my devices use an HDMI Switch (which Neeo considers Stupid) - this irritating prompt comes up EVERY TIME I want to shut my system on OR off.

      My family doesn't even use the Neeo remote because it is too cumbersome to do basic operations, unlike the Logitech Harmony remote.

      Randy

      Like 2
    • Randy N if this hdmi switch is an always on device, you should inform Andy to change it in the database, then no stupid warning will appear. 

      Like 1
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Andy Per Markus suggestion:

      Markus Mahr wrote:
      Randy N if this hdmi switch is an always on device, you should inform Andy to change it in the database, then no stupid warning will appear. 

      Like 1
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Markus Mahr Thank you for the suggestion - just did.  ;)

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Randy N 

      Which device are you using?

      Like
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Andy This is the HDMI Seitch that is always on.

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Randy N 

      Done! The new data appears around 1PM CET. Please update your device according to this guide. Thanks!

      Like 1
    • Andy any movement Comcast X-1 boxes being switched to always on.

      Like 1
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Geoff Gautier 

      Actually, I don't really want to do that. The X1 is not stupid and works fine. I'll ask Patrick to start a voting. Let's see what everybody thinks about this.

      Like
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Andy  Wow!  That makes a HUGE difference!  😁 Hopefully you guys can figure out how to make the "Stupid notification screen" optional for all devices.

      Thank you!

      Like
    • Andy ugm.  No it doesn't work right, at al...

      First the X1-GA power doesn't even work, most of the actual remote functions are missing and favorite channels didn't work (last time I tried)

      And second we wouldn't be having the conversation if it actually was treated as a smart device as I've posted a screen shot of the stupid button, so what makes you state otherwise??

      But it again this boils down to what your engineers think and shove down users throats vs just proving a user ability to add a power toggle via recipe and being done. 

      Like
    • Andy & Actually the fact you're making decisions on how I run MY devices only further highlights the whole stupid, lack of actual control and programming rethink really needed here.  I'm not being snarky, (& I do appreciate the responses, in general) but seriously an Apple "we know better than you" attitude on a smart remote setup & settings ain't gonna fly. 

      Like
      • Andy
      • Andy
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Geoff Gautier 

      Can you please try the xFinity X1 device. This should work better for you. Thanks!

      Like
      • Derek G
      • Derek_G
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Geoff Gautier try the  XC1-A for your X1 box. I have been using that with no issues. It seems to be the most complete IMO

      Like
    • Derek G Thanks, I'll try that.  (still very sad that a HUGE cable co's DVR box doesn't work...)   

      Like
      • Derek G
      • Derek_G
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Geoff Gautier There are just a lot of X1 options. I have tested a few (they all seem to work for my box), but that XC1-A seems to be the best all around, especially for timing of the commands for Favorites. My bet is the XC1-A driver will work fine for you, but let me know.

      Like
    • Andy will try thx

      Like
  • That’s the easiest things to do with NEEO. It’s all there on my first page doing exactly what you request. So, you should learn how to make simple recipes with the devices. With experience, it will come.

    Like 2
  • It has been written a few times on Planet.NEEO, but at least there should be an option to hide the "dumb device screen". Even with dumb devices, there are sometimes workarounds with CEC, automatic sensing power on/ off / input choice whatsoever.

    Like 3
  • Kill the stupid screen....

    1) it's stupid

    2) a simple power button would suffice 

    3) a quick re-run of a receipe with smart devices would power cycle the stupid device 

    4) a smart remote that wastes and locks the first screen because of 1 device in a string make it a dumb, err a stupid remote

    5) it's stupid to not to come up with a much much better solution 

    Like 6
  • I can't tell you just yet what will exactly result out of your feedbacks which we read all, but we are discussing this on a regular base and we think we have some improvements that we could implement which you'd sure like. It will take awhile to be realized, but changes will come.

    Like 1
      • Randy N
      • Randy_N
      • 2 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick The stupid screen needs to go - my family refuses to use Neeo because of all the extra buttons you have to press to make it do anything the UX/UI needs rethought.

      Like
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