Stupid device? The Smartener is here!

Dear All,

One thing that I love with Planet NEEO is to discuss with you all and hearing your thoughts and feedback. One of the much discussed early topics was NEEOs “stupid device" handling. Many of you who own an “affected” device, reported that the current handling was not ideal for you. Based on that we changed development priorities a bit - to get this out to you quickly. This is the biggest change in release 0.48.31. Over 4000 new lines of code have been written for that feature alone! I’m excited to tell you what we came up with:

When adding a "not-so-smart-device" (formerly known as "stupid device") you will be presented with new options & some magic:

 

The Device Smartener

We are proud to introduce a way to truly smarten your device! 

The biggest issue in the market when trying to control a "not-so-smart-device" is not knowing the device's status. This changes today! Instead of just building a pure infrared solution like the other control products out there, we thought we utilize something that almost all those devices have in common: HDMI! We use it to know - and not just assume - the real status of the monitored device. This makes things much more reliable. 

In order to accomplish that, our developers needed to dive deep into the HDMI code and actually come up with new workflows and smart filtering. Some inventions around that even made it into the latest patent we filed. 

I hope you will love it! Please note that this magic requires the NEEO Brain to be wired over HDMI to your AV system. Also, not all devices support HDMI CEC and some don’t even have an HDMI port (your old VCR as an example ;-). For those, we introduce the new assumption mode.

 

Assumption Mode

In this mode, the NEEO Brain assumes in which state your "not-so-smart-device" is and tracks its power status across all recipes and interactions. The assumption mode then assures the so-called "power toggle” command is used in the exact right moments. This assumption mode is also the way to get rid of the power screen and manual interactions that several affected users disliked. NEEO will now handle all of that for you so it feels like a smart device. Additionally - any devices operating in assumption mode has quick access to a “fix" option in case your device should ever be in the wrong state.

 

Manual Mode

Don’t worry, if you are in favor of the current handling, you can still choose the “Manual Mode” to continue to use your not-so-smart-devices exactly the way you did up to know. You can switch forth and back between the modes at any point via the device settings.

 

What to do if you already have "not-so-smart” devices on your NEEO?

Pretty easy, here’s what to do after the update:

  • Device Smartener: Have the original remote ready. Open the NEEO App, then navigate to the settings on the top right and open “Device”. Then tap on the "not-so-smart” device and choose “Re-run device smartener”. Follow the instructions on the screen.
  • Assumption Mode: Open the NEEO App, then navigate to the settings on the top right and open “Device”. Then tap on the "not-so-smart” device and choose “Change power mode”, just follow the screen and choose “Assumption Mode”. Your recipes will automatically be adjusted.

 

In case you add a new “not-so-smart-device” it’s even easier, the NEEO setup will guide you through the process.

I hope you enjoy that. I’m sure it makes a drastic difference for some of you and I look forward hearing from you. Thanks again for all the feedback you guys have provided.

 

Enjoy!

Raphael

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  • Should this also solve the Swisscom TV 2.0 box? I can't see any smartener option, neither the "Assumption Mode". Do I still need the additional IR receiver?

    Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      David Thanks for posting :). Yes, you still need the additional adapter. Can you confirm that the NEEO Brain has updated to the latest firmware? This can be verified in the about section of the NEEO app within the settings.

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
      • David
      • Davidm
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Jeff Yes, I updated the brain. I hoped I could avoid getting this extra hardware...

      Reply Like
    • David The Swisscom TV box still required their dongle. We are working with them on a more elegant solution though. Might take a while but I will certainly announce it in the blog once available. Thanks

      Reply Like
  • I finally managed to get my devices upgraded but I can't configure anything. Seems the iOS app has forgotten my user account, the Cloud status is "Loading...", I also cannot log in and without login I only get tons of errors even for simple operations like trying to upgrade the recipes.

    I'm not even sure I'm looking for the right menu item since there is not "Device" as mentioned in the articles but only "Devices" and nothing seems to indicate I could switch modes in the items I do see...

    Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Daniel Egger Thanks for reporting this. Have you attempted to reboot the NEEO Brain? You can do this simply by unplugging it from power and plugging it back in. I look forward to your response.

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
    • Jeff Okay, reboot brought my "cloud" back to work. Still can't find any of the mentioned items to switch modes. HDMI is hooked up nicely to my AVR and some of the recipes received some updates after explicitly checking each of them. The look and feel is pretty much identical to pre-update.

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Daniel Egger Can you provide me with the make and model of the 'not-so-smart' devices that you own so I can try and replicate on my end?

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
    • Jeff Onkyo TX-NR509, Sony BDP-S185, Benq W1060

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Daniel Egger Thanks for sharing. I have confirmed that all three devices are smart devices. You should be good to go :).

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
    • Jeff Meaning? I can't find any of the configuration options mentioned in the article and cannot see any difference between having an CEC connection or not.

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Daniel Egger Aside from the bug fixes in the brain and remote, the smartner update does not apply to you. You may be a bit confused as to the CEC functionality. We are using CEC to better control 'no-so-smart' devices. I feel as if you think we enabled CEC control for all devices including those that are smart devices.

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
    • Jeff Not sure what supposedly makes those devices "smart", they're all pretty dumb. I thought the whole point of CEC was to being able to figure out in which status those devices are and to speed up the status switches. Neither of which works any better than before; turning on a device still blocks the remote for at least 5 seconds and if I change status via physical button or IR remote Neeo doesn't know anything about that.

      Neeo is still just a fancy IR remote control for me same as before the update; maybe you could clarify again what the advantages of using CEC are supposed to be because I'm slightly at a loss here...

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Daniel Egger We call devices "Smart" when they have discrete power on and off commands. Devices that do not have this are classified as "Not-so-smart" devices. We implemented a way via CEC to help "Not-so-smart" devices power on and off without the manual extra step.

      Daniel Egger said:
      turning on a device still blocks the remote for at least 5 seconds and if I change status via physical button or IR remote Neeo doesn't know anything about that.

      Not too sure I follow you here. Can you elaborate a bit more on this? What do you mean by blocks the remote for 5 seconds? What status are you changing that knows nothing about? 

      Thanks, 

      Reply Like
    • Jeff said:
      Daniel Egger We call devices "Smart" when they have discrete power on and off commands. Devices that do not have this are classified as "Not-so-smart" devices.

       Wow, you just made me curious about dumb devices.

      Jeff said:
      Not too sure I follow you here. Can you elaborate a bit more on this? What do you mean by blocks the remote for 5 seconds? What status are you changing that knows nothing about? 

      If I activate the recipe to turn a device on I always get the round progress bar on the remote and while I'm watching that animation I can't turn on other devices (which I have to because otherwise I can't turn off any of my devices without shutting down the projector which is a horrible thing to do). Neeo doesn't recognise any status change (like me hitting the on/off button), how could it; it's just a one-way IR signal. I thought that's exactly what the CEC support was supposed to change.

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Daniel Egger You can add power on commands to any device in any recipe. So when the recipe is triggering, it also sends that command to the specified device of your choice. The same applies when you power off a recipe, add the power off command to that recipe for any specific device you need powered off. You could have done this in all the previous firmware versions. 

      Reply Like
    • Jeff Yes, I know, that's what I've been saying: Nothing has changed for me compared to previous versions. I still don't see where the much touted "Smartener" comes into play or why I put in all the effort to connect HDMI when there's exactly no benefit to that *at all*, Neeo is still just simulating a plain old IR remote. By your definition there's two classes of devices: "dumb" devices (only supports on/off toggle) and "smart" devices (supports dedicated on/off commands) -- obviously most people have a completely different idea what "smart" means.

      Also the description is plain and simply not correct:

      Raphael said:
      We use it to know - and not just assume - the real status of the monitored device.

      Here the Neeo recognized exclusively changes made by itself. If I manually turn off a device, a device goes into standby, I switch inputs or make any other change the Neeo still assumes whatever it has done last and requires me to replay the state change, e.g. turn the device off so I can turn it on again.

      I also wanted to mention that it is very confusion that the mentioned menu items to switch modes are no where to be found on my system. How should I know that this only applies to "non-smart" devices and that my devices are all "smart"?!?

      Reply Like
    • Daniel Egger The smartner update does not apply to you as you don’t own any not-so-smart devices.

      You can see in the comments above that it makes a huge difference for people who own an affected device. 

      You should not try to use it in your setup though as you simply have no device that it applies to. 

      In case you explore any issues with these please open a separate thread.

      What you were referring to on the CEC side would be different idea (reading the status of a “smart” device)

      I suggest to submit the idea to the voting part. Thanks!

      Reply Like
  • Working great for me. My 'stupid device' (Samsung Horizon cable box) doesn't seem to support CEC, so I was only able to try Assumption Mode. It works perfectly so far; and I like the "Fix" option you've added, which means even if it does go wrong it's simple to rectify.

    Like the new subtle changes too - such as the Power Off / Reboot screen (not that I hope to see it much! :) )

    Reply Like 2
    • Mike Whooley Awesome. I'm very glad to hear that. Such motivating feedback is great for the engineers who worked hard on that. Thank you very much for being part of NEEO

      Reply Like 2
    • Mike Whooley someone here developed a third party driver for that box that works over ip making it really intelligent if this can be said about this box ;-) search the forums 

      Reply Like 2
    • Loic Thanks - I think I saw that previously. I'll look for it again.

      Assumption Mode is working great for me, except in one scenario - there's no 'fix' option available when powering off:

      1. I start the Cable recipe (my cable box is the dumb device), and it works fine.
      2. I switch to another recipe for a while, and after a while the cable box turns off due to inactivity.
      3. If I now try to turn everything off, it power toggles the cable box, so it's On again.

      To fix this, my only option is start the Cable recipe again, Fix the cable device, and turn everything back off.

      Reply Like
    • Jono
    • Take the blue pill
    • Jono
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    So the channel logos for "favourites" keep reloading and aren't kept on the device cache.. looks super annoying :(

    Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Jono Thanks for sharing this. Have you tried to reboot the NEEO Brain?  Also, how many favorite channels have you added?

      Reply Like
      • Jono
      • Take the blue pill
      • Jono
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Jeff  yup rebooted the brain twice, it’s reolicable. I have 3 full pages of favourites 

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Jono Thanks for the update. We are having our devs look into better image performance. More to come on this in the next release :). 

      Reply Like
  • So glad this is finally fixed! It was my second biggest issue. I also see that my third biggest issue -- the double screen jump that always happens on the second swipe after activating a recipe -- is taken care of.

    Hopefully now you guys will focus on the poor grouping of controls that makes the DVR such a pain to use.

    Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Richard Moore Glad we were able to give you a better NEEO experience :). I am not too familiar with the double jump screen issue. Can you post a video about it in a separate post and tag me on it?

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
    • Jeff since the problem is fixed, I can't make a video. It's been mentioned by many people, though. If I find my post that mentioned it, I'll tag you there.

      Reply Like 1
    • Jeff It was when you tried to swipe left to go to a page and it ended up going 2x pages to the left instead of 1x.

      I haven't seen this happen since the update so I would assume it's been fixed.

      Reply Like 1
    • Richard Moore Yes this was resolved. I’m happy to hear it works for you! Thanks - I think Jeff after reading hundreds of messages yesterday -  he overlooked the part of your comment where you say it was resolved. I remove the links above for further confusion ok? Thanks! I will send it to Jeff though. Thanks for being part of NEEO!

      Reply Like 1
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Raphael 😅

      Reply Like
  • Does this HMDI cec thing work for anybody? I have a Philips smart stupid tv, connected the hdmi either to the tv or my avr. Enabled HMDI cec (easylink) but the magic does not work... I am on the verge of buying a harmony again. 

    Reply Like
    • Tom den Heijer If the CEC Smartener not working, did you allready try the assumption mode to control your TV? I have my DVB Receiver working flawlessly in this mode, due to not supported CEC.

      I would recommend to give this a try. The Harmony is (in my eyes) a piese of plastic art....

      Reply Like
    • Markus Mahr Thanks, I spoke to soon. After I rebooted my brain and used another HDMI cable HDMI cec worked! Let's hope it 'll be useful

      Reply Like 3
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Tom den Heijer HDMI cables also need to support CEC. I believe they have to be HDMI 1.4 or higher :).  Markus Mahr Can you confirm?

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
    • Jeff nearby, first fully support was given with 1.3!

      So all hdmi cables and equipment must be 1.3 or higher specified.

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Markus Mahr Thank you sir!

      Reply Like
  • Awesome! the assumption mode works flawlessly for my set up. watching tv is only 1 action now!

    Thx a lot guys!

    Reply Like 3
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Jeff Van Calster Glad you like it :). The NEEO Engineers worked their tails off for this one 👏

      Reply Like
  • Hey Raphael,

    That's really good news! TBH My NEEO is unused on the shelve, just because of the "unsmart device" situation.  I realized on the first day, that I never will implement NEEO in my house due to this limitation. (It even would look like a step back from my last Harmony setup, in regards of easy of use). So looking forward to the weekend for some testing!!

    Keep up and continue innovating and thanks. Walter

    Reply Like 1
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Walter Hofstetter Thanks for the feedback! Please keep us posted and should anything come up we will be more than happy to help :). Feel free to tag me (@jeff) and I will respond.

      Thank you!

      Reply Like 1
    • Walter Hofstetter love it! Happy testing.

      Reply Like 1
  • Jeff said:
    We call devices "Smart" when they have discrete power on and off commands.

    I don’t fully agree with this statement. There are devices with discrete power commands, but without discrete input commands. Some times you can work around that with macros, but the same is true for power commands. 

    The next step for the Smartener should be support for CEC input commands.

    Reply Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Paul Spee We'll look into that, could be an option. What kind of TV do you have again, is that a Philips?

      Reply Like
    • Patrick 

      It is an Hitachi P50-XP05.

      Reply Like
  • BuzzLightyear said:
    HDMI-CEC (Hitachi)

     Wooo Link

    Reply Like
  • Hey Guys I connected the Brain with my Denon AVR-X3300W via HDMI. Then I Re-Run Device Smartener. The only thing that I could choose was the Assumption and Manual Mode. So i tried the Assumption Mode. And what can I say, it works like a charm even when my “Not-so-smart-Device” is in wrong status. Like your solution here and I’m pretty sure that even my Wife and the Kids will change to Neeo right now. 

    But just to make sure i don’t miss any better experience than that with HDMI. What do I have to do to get this work? Enable HDMI-CEC on the Denon?

    Reply Like 2
    • Alex Bayer I love to hear that! 

      The experience assumption mode vs. Smartester is very similar (same screens) the only difference of course is that one is an assumption and the other adds some real data that it had sensed. 

      Very happy to hear that you like the assumption mode!

      Reply Like 1
    • Raphael 

      Pretty good work guys. 

      So the most annoying Behavior is left behind, for me and my Family at least. 

      But as usual, after the Update is before the Update. Really looking forward to the UI Update and next improvements. Especially the Zwave Devices need some more love here in my opinion. 

       

      Cheers

      Reply Like 2
    • Alex Bayer Your describe our developers life ;) 

      Alex Bayer said:
      after the Update is before the Update
      Reply Like 2
  • Hi Raphael ! Really happy with this updates, but have 2 suggestions:

    1. Option to turn off device when Switching recipe. So I am watching my cable box and then want to watch Netflix on my Apple TV. I press the Apple TV recipe. TV switches to the correct HDMI input and Apple TV is turned on. At that moment I want the NEEO to shut down my Cable Box. I think this could be easy implemented as extra step option in a recipe 'Turn off devices from previous steps' and then you can press some toggle switches.

     

    2. My Sony KDL-65-X850C can be a lazy son of a #%!@# especially in the morning. Sometimes it takes up to 20 ~ 30 seconds to wake up. In this case the NEEO already send the signal to switch inputs for example. Now with the CEC in place, isn't it an option to make TV's smarter? So that NEEO waits until the TV is running and waits for the next step. One step further, sometimes NEEO 'misses' the TV and the TV doesn't wake up at all, in this case NEEO can automatically send another TURNO ON signal.

    All the best and thanks for this great update!

     

    UPDATE: Do you also plan to update the iOS app? More specifically with iPhone X support?

    Reply Like
      • Reto Zürrer
      • CTO / IT Consultant (Swiss Company)
      • Reto_Zuerrer
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Kephas Busink 1. Why you don't integrate a turn off cable box in your Apple TV recipe? So you can turn off all the devices which you don't need if you want to use the Apple TV.

      Reply Like
    • Reto Zürrer Because the cable box is a ‘not so smart’ device. So if I add this to de device it will toggle the device? Or does the new firmware add functionality to turn of not so smart devices? Because in that case I missed it!

      Reply Like
      • Reto Zürrer
      • CTO / IT Consultant (Swiss Company)
      • Reto_Zuerrer
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Kephas Busink Maybe if your NEEO Brain is connected with HDMI to your TV and your TV is connected with HDMI to your cable box and you activated HDMI CEC, maybe you have more functions! But you have to use the smartener for your device.

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Kephas Busink Hello! Thank you for posting this. You can accomplish suggestion #1 a couple of ways actually :).

      1. Add a shortcut to a recipe to power off any specific device. You can read this article on how to add shortcuts (Click here)
      2. As mentioned by  Reto Zürrer You can add the power off command of your cable box when triggering your Apple Tv recipe. As he suggested, make sure you are using assumption mode or the device smartner feature (should your cable box support CEC).

      If you need any assistance in doing this, please let me know and I will be happy to guide you through it :).

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      New App for iPhone X is being tested by the beta team already. It needs a bit of work still, but it should not take much longer for that update.

      Reply Like
  • Patrick Hi hi. Sorry I have not read through this wall of text but I wanted to let you know that when I add the brain to the HDMI bus I get sound interruptions on the ARC channel. So I unplugged it again for now.

    Reply Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Thomas Hebendanz Thanks for the feedback, have not heard about a similar issue yet. Do you happen to have another HDMI cable for in between the NEEO Brain and your setup? Would be nice if you could describe your setup a bit more, then we could try to get this reproduced.

      Do you have stupid devices on which you want to use the device smartener? Are you using the Assumption Mode right now?

      Reply Like
    • Patrick Hi Patrick, sorry for the late reply. I was considering using it for the FireTV box but that is not really nessesary. Merily curiosity on my end. The effect does not seem to be cable depended however. My setup is rather simple. I have a Bose Lifestyle 650 which everything is connected to and an LG TV which is connected to the Lifestyle on the ARC port. I tried wiring the brain to the 2nd HDMI of the TV. Maybe it simply is my TV that has issues managing the HDMI traffic. In another discussion I already reported (was fixed) that when enabling certain features of my TV the CPU power of it is insufficient to keep up with the IR commands when switching channels by favorites. Maybe this is a similiar issue. But in that case it would not be possible to solve it on NEEO end. What I didn't try yet however is wiring the NEEO to the Lifestyle 650.

      Reply Like
    • Pär
    • Par
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    Ok so I have TV box connected via HDMI to my Denon 1713 receiver, and connected via another HDMI-input to Neeo. According to Denon, my receiver supports CEC.

    Still when trying to run Smartener, nothing happend when trying to turn the device on. What am I missing?

    Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Pär Hello! When you say, Tv box, are you referring to a cable box? If so, can you provide me with the make and model of the cable box? To my knowledge, most cable boxes do not support CEC and the assumption mode would be your best option for you to use :). Are you prompted with the assumption mode?

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
      • Pär
      • Par
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Jeff hey! Oh is that so... ok so it’s Dilog 701. Assumption mode is on but it’s annoying when the on/off toggle get itself reversed in rare occasions. Like I’m turning the box when starting the recipe.

      Weird thing about this though (which I’ve reported to you guys yesterday), at the last firmware update, the Dilog came with new updates too. Before all you had was ”Power Toggle” as a remote command, but now it’s also ”On” and ”Off”. You could think that this would solve everything, but it seems like those commands are just power toggling aswell. I’m not sure I’m doing something wrong here 😬

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Pär The assumption mode is doing just that :). It's assuming the power state your cable box is in. If you power it off, it assumes its on and will turn it off. Vice versa when you power it on. Again, please note that this is a limitation on the cable box and we (NEEO) are helping improve the experience with these 'no-so-smart-devices' :).

       

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
  • Raphael said:
    Assumption Mode

    In this mode, the NEEO Brain assumes in which state your "not-so-smart-device" is and tracks its power status across all recipes and interactions. The assumption mode then assures the so-called "power toggle” command is used in the exact right moments. This assumption mode is also the way to get rid of the power screen and manual interactions that several affected users disliked. NEEO will now handle all of that for you so it feels like a smart device. Additionally - any devices operating in assumption mode has quick access to a “fix" option in case your device should ever be in the wrong state.

     Good morning everyone

    This doesn't really seem to work. Here is what I experience after enabling "Assumption Mode":

    1. Start my "Watch TV" recipe (Wingo TV Box is my not so smart device)
    2. TV box, TV, AV receiver turn on, all the inputs change to the correct source, all good.
    3. Now when I change to a different scene, i.e. "Watch Android TV", my NVIDIA Shield TV turns on, TV and AV receiver change to the correct input, but my TV box doesn't switch off.

    Isn't this what the assumption mode actually should do? Or did I get this wrong? Do I have to add a "Power toggle" command for my TV box to every recipe?

    Thanks for helping with this.

    Best
    Patrick

    Reply Like
    • Patrick Borner The behavior is that all devices stay on until the power button is used, this way fast switching is possible. I believe there is an enhancement request to have devices turned off when they are not in use. (at least have it as an option.)

      With smart devices you are able to use a power off command in the other recipes to simulate the same behavior. I don't own any stupid devices so I am not sure whether this trick also works with stupid devices.

      (With stupid devices I mean devices that do not support a separate power on and off command)

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Patrick Borner Hello! Devices are turned off when you power them off. If you switch to a different recipe, your devices will all stay on. Until you power them off, they will be turned off. I suggest adding a power toggle shortcuts to different recipes so you can turn off devices that will no longer need to be on.

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
      • Patrick Borner
      • Marketing Manager
      • Patrick_Borner
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Jeff    Niels de Klerk Thanks guys, this is actually pretty handy. 

      Reply Like
  • I don’t have the options mentioned in your instructions as to the “smartener routine”

    Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Dan Misenheimer Hi Dan

      This only applies to not so smart devices. If you own any, you will see the smartner or assumption mode come up when you add these devices and are setting them up.

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Dan Misenheimer You will only get the device smartner option if that device supports CEC. Most set top boxes do not so you will need to use the assumption mode, which will also provide a good experience.

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
  • Hello, Does CEC (or other like viera link, ...) have to be turned on the all the device for this to work?

    Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      JP Colin Hello! What exactly are you trying to control with CEC using NEEO? However, to answer your question, no. CEC does not need to be enabled for CEC to work with NEEO :).

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
  • Jeff, here is my other post: https://planet.neeo.com/t/80j3n0

    In fact it is mostly for my TV since the brain will be in the cabinet with all the devices exept the TV, but i don't want a IR emmiter on the TV, so i hope to be able to controle it via CEC or IP. But could be interesting to know the actual state of the set top box since it's a stupid device.

    Tu summarise: this is my setup

    -TV : Panasonic TX-50EX780 (cabled ethernet, HDMI to receiver)

    -Amp: Pioneer VSX 921 (cabled ethernet) in closed cabinet

    -BluRay: Pioneer BDP LX55 (cabled ethernet, HDMI to receiver) in closed cabinet

    -Set top box (Belgium): Telenet ADB  AD220 (cabled ethernet, HDMI to receiver) in closed cabinet is a stupid device

    -Raspberry 3b with Kodi (cabled ethernet,HDMI to receiver) in closed cabinet

    -Sonos Connect (cabled ethernet,analog to receiver) in closed cabinet

    -Different Philips Hue lights

    -Legrand-Bticino Home automation MyHome (openwebnet) (lightning, shades, heating, …) on cabled ethernet.

    At start I just would like Neeo to replace my old Harmony, in other words doing the following:

    Button watch TV: Turn on TV on the right HDMi input, Turn on Amp on the right HDMi input, defined volume, Turn on settop box, all this with 1 button press, volume buttons on the remote control the amp, channel buttons and arrows control the set top box

    turn off: everything turns off.

    Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      JP Colin 

      JP Colin said:
      At start I just would like Neeo to replace my old Harmony, in other words doing the following:

       NEEO will do this perfectly out the box. Not too sure about a specific volume, but you can manually control that with the NEEO Remote.

      Please note for the aforementioned devices outside of your Sonos and Phillips Hue, NEEO will control these via IR. For your Raspberry 3b with Kodi, not too sure. In checking our works with NEEO page we support the Raspberry Pi. I know for Kodi one of our amazing customers whipped up a custom driver for it. We have a fully documented SDK and API. You can learn more about it by clicking on the following link:

      Click here

      For your Sonos connect, we support it but no options for the inputs at the moment. 

      The majority of set-top boxes do not have discrete power on and off commands. We handle this perfectly with our assumption mode. I highly suggest you order your NEEO Combo if you haven't already :). We do offer a 30-day money back guarantee. We also have an amazing community and support team, we're always ready to help with any hiccups that may arise.

      Thanks!

      Reply Like 1
      • JP Colin
      • JP_Colin
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Jeff 

      What do you mean with: For your Sonos connect, we support it but no options for the inputs at the moment. 

      I can live with IR if it works flauwlessly.

      Can you confirm my Panasonic TV can be controled without adding an IR blaster?

      For kodi we'll see, worst case it is like my old setup where kodi is controled with CEC trough the TV. but full integration would be nice, but i'm not a fan of adding another RPi to install drivers, any plan to allow installing drivers on the brain?

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      JP Colin Sonos connect has inputs, you can add it to NEEO, however you cannot use it as a "soundbar". At the moment you would only be able to use it as a Sonos speaker with your music library. 

      As long as the Panasonic Tv is within line of sight of the NEEO Brain or IR extender you will be able to control your Tv.

      Any information to install your own custom drivers can be found in the link to our API and SDK :).

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
      • JP Colin
      • JP_Colin
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Jeff Ok, Sonos connect is just for music library / internet radio.

      Do you mean that the Pana TV can't be controled bij CEC? I'm not wanting to put an IR extender. and like i explained the brain is in the cabinet.

      Reply Like
      • Jeff
      • Head of Customer Experience
      • Jeff
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      JP Colin Correct, at the moment we do not control any Tvs using CEC. You would need to place the NEEO Brain in such a location where the IR can reach the Tv if you do not want to use the IR extender.

      Thanks!

      Reply Like
  • NEEO's KickStarter campaign promise of an open SDK for a physical-button remote device is the only thing that convinced me to support the project. I already control all of my media devices using API implementations (or in the case of serial devices, high-level drivers) I wrote myself, because using TCP/serial connectivity is fast, completely reliable, and orders of magnitude "smarter" than InfraRed or CEC.

    I exposed each device driver as a web-based microservice, which I in turn implemented as custom devices using NEEO's SDK. After the frustrations of wrestling with strange bugs with the SDK, I have been more or less happily using it for a few months until the release of this "feature". I am now harassed every time I turn the media centre on, despite my TV device being smarter than the NEEO team's available IR driver.

    Speaking as one software engineer to another, making breaking changes is annoying, but necessary as you struggle forward — but when you do so, please make sure the engineering team at least updates the SDK to control the new feature(s). The API has seen three releases in the past six months, all of which have trivial updates. Like adding "custom" icon support to devices where you literally provide one icon for Sonos? Really?

    It is incredibly annoying to have my already-frustrating experience degrade further due to a "feature" update that provides zero benefit to me, and that I cannot control/remove in any way. Perhaps have your engineers spend a few development cycles fixing the problems and shortcomings with your API before investing any more time suggesting end-users can address problems and frustrating experiences etc. by using the SDK.

    As one who has spent a considerable amount of time wrestling with it, trust me — it's not a pleasant experience, and is even less polished/complete than the rest of the software at NEEO.

    Reply Like
  • Hi Kevin Williams ,

    I read a lot of frustration and as a fellow user with quite some NEEO SDK experience I would like to help you out. What isn't clear to me is the concrete issues you are facing. Feel free to post a new topic in the SDK section and link me to it.

    Kevin Williams said:
    I am now harassed every time I turn the media centre on, despite my TV device being smarter than the NEEO team's available IR driver.

    Could you be specific in how you are being harassed? What isn't working and what is working.

    Kevin Williams said:
    Speaking as one software engineer to another, making breaking changes is annoying, but necessary as you struggle forward

     As of yet there have not been any breaking changes in the code. The SDK brings many new features but none of them required to change your code up until now. The Icon feature isn't for Sonos although you could use that. This doen't mean there will not come a day that these are nessisary to continue.

    Kevin Williams said:
    The API has seen three releases in the past six months, all of which have trivial updates.

    What API's are you using? the ones described in my post? Please not that officially only the API's that start with API are supported. I'm not aware of any changes in the API other then new API's. I'm using most if not all API's that I'm aware of in my homey integration. Please let me know what you are running into specifically.

     

    As you can read out of my questions I can not relate to the issues you are having with the SDK. I did a check on any SDK related issue posts by you but unfortunately didn't find one yet. It would help if you could start a post in the SDK section so that others can help you out. If it turns out there actually are bugs then they can be addressed.

    Reply Like
    • Thanks for your reply, Niels de Klerk .  I have read your posts in the past on the API functionality.

      The specific issue is that which is the original thread of this message: When I start any recipe that uses the television, I am told "Your TV might need a little help. Select the correct input manually. When it's ready, swipe left." The input is already being set as part of the recipe (via the receiver). The instructions above do not work for SDK-created devices; neither "Change power mode" nor "Re-run device smartener" appear as options for any of my devices. In other words, this new "feature" has made my experience worse, and I see no fix to the problem.

      It wasn't a breaking code change, but a breaking experience change: NEEO altered functionality without any action on my part. It's like getting into your car one morning and finding out that the usual steps to turn it on no longer work. I certainly didn't ask NEEO to make this change on my behalf and now I can't even make it go away again.

      In the interests of keeping this thread on topic, I have not, and will not, raise general API concerns on this site at all, but rather in the GitHub repository where they belong — except for the fact that the API has no mention at all of this change, so it's not an API-related defect.

      My experience so far with the SDK is that it is indeed buggy, and that NEEO acknowledges my defect reports (with difficulty) and suggested a workaround but didn't actually fix the problem nor the documentation before closing the ticket.

      https://github.com/NEEOInc/neeo-sdk/issues/59

      The fact that the SDK project hasn't been touched in two months suggests to me that the API is obviously a very low priority for the NEEO team. If I sound frustrated because they added "custom icon support" that literally supports one icon, it's because I, and I suspect other engineers, would rather see the NEEO team's development cycles being used to add useful features, bug fixes, or at a minimum, further improvements to the documentation and examples.

      Reply Like
    • Kevin Williams 

      Kevin Williams said:
      The fact that the SDK project hasn't been touched in two months suggests to me that the API is obviously a very low priority for the NEEO team.

       I think it's remarkable to see what is already possible with the SDK. and I can assure you that some sweets are coming soon (TM)

      Reply Like
    • What Niels said is definitely true ;) also, we don't publish all changes to GitHub instantly, as we need to make sure that features we expose through the SDK also have their counterpart in the firmware.

      Reply Like
  • Kevin Williams said:
    I am told "Your TV might need a little help. Select the correct input manually.

     There are two types of stupid devices. those that don't have discreet power commands ("POWER ON" and "POWER OFF")  and those that don't have discreet input commands ("INPUT 1", "INPUT 2", "INPUT HDMI 1", "INPUT HDMI 2"). I suspect that adding a button named "INPUT 1" and one "INPUT 2" is enough to have your TV setup fixed. you could test it by creating a new room and add the driver there just to test. Button names are important for the working of NEEO, 

    Kevin Williams said:
    The instructions above do not work for SDK-created devices;

     That's true, making the driver so that the remote thinks it's smart (normally a lot of code is involved right ;-)) should be the way to go. Code is so much more powerful as ir.

     

    Kevin Williams said:
    except for the fact that the API has no mention at all of this change, so it's not an API-related defect.

    As far as i'm aware there have been no changes, only new API endpoints.

     

    Kevin Williams said:
    https://github.com/NEEOInc/neeo-sdk/issues/59

     As far as i know "CURSOR ENTER" was always the correct button name. I can imagine no software engineer would read my guide as it's mostly meant for those that can code a bit but never used nodeJS or anything close like using a SDK but it has some nice examples showing the button mappings (https://planet.neeo.com/t/k9tnlp

    Reply Like