Nice control logo for the buttons. Much clearer than the actuals! 

Yann FREMONT for some time I considered upgrading to an S70. When NEEO came out I thought it was even sleeker looking and it also had z-wave. It was also considerably cheaper. Seemed too good to be true and in a way it was. But in all fairness, I should not expect a fully comparable product at such price differences.

That being said, if NEEO had integrated IR learning - still not available! - maybe device support would not be such an issue. And why some basic customisation options are still not available is also a mystery to me. And don’t get me started on the assumption mode.

Price is why I never did buy the Nevo. Maybe I should have. For me, after a difficult start, my NEEO setup is now acceptable. For the rest I have lowered my expectations for increased peace of mind ...

Yann FREMONT sure, not trying to compare a 10 year old product with NEEO directly. Just wanted to say that I didn’t by the Nevo at the time (because of price) and now conclude that the NEEO story was too good to be true (best looking all in one super easy universal remote at an affordable price point).

It took me many frustrating months to get all my devices supported (due to lack of IR learning) and find workarounds for some (in my humble opinion plain wrong and undocumented) design choices, as well as the lack of HMI customisation. Don’t get me wrong, I like to play around and experiment but this was a lot of frustrating trial-and-error without having a clue why NEEO was doing what it was doing. To give you an idea, I currently need 20 devices in my NEEO setup despite owning only 10 real devices ... 

Anyway, in the end I went from “completely useless remote” to “replaced my old Logitech”. My remaining wish list would be:

1) option to bypass the assumption mode for smart devices (and include an assumption mode for devices without discrete input selection)

2) hardware button remapping (I like the minimalistic look but we need to make the most of every button)

3) HMI customisation (including many of the suggestions made in this thread)

4) IR learning (currently not an issue for me but this is still an essential feature)

5) better z-wave support, debouncing on the remote is still worse than on iOS, there are still buggy controls (I gave up giving feedback), switches are forced into the light recipe etc

6) advanced IF statements (also described in this thread)

Jakob Winter 

NEEO is like a super chic designer car that is announced with electric drive, petrol engine, and hydrogen drive.

Is then delivered with a chic body a non-functioning onboard computer for refueling I have to get a gas station attendant and the electric drive and the hydrogen drive is indeed installed but not functional and will be brought later with an update of the board computer maybe sometime in the distant future. At least that's how it feels to me personally.
Only the design does not matter to me if the remote just is not intuitive to use and can not control the devices for which it was actually purchased. Hopefully, the software gets fixed, the hardware is already there.

Daniel Sütel What do you mean by creating noise? My personal view is different. A company does not only live on exaggerated marketing but above all on satisfied customers who recommend such a product. So it's the other way around make no noise. If someone asks me what kind of designed remote control I own, are you happy with it, what can you do with this device and would you recommend it?
Then I would answer, looks nice but if you want to buy it,  then wait until the company has delivered the firmware updates so that the remote can do what it should.

Fonzo well, if you re the Fonzo that came over from mediola to this place than I know what you mean. But I would ask how many companies , products does it need for a little bit more stick to your promises and customer focus ? I m not willing to spend hundreds of Euros again and again just for the fun to throw another good try into the trash can and look for the next big thing. This is not good enough for me as a customer.

Jakob Winter  personally , I would use the word expectation instead of dream. Also the occasional visits and , lets call them comments of different NEEO employees doesn’t satisfy me.

most of the good help and support I got from users , people that created SDK related stuff  I wouldn’t be able to create myself. Don’t get me wrong here , I believe this is exactly the way it should be but based on a solid ground created by NEEO. This solid ground isn’t there so those power users from my point of view do a lot of firefighting , imagine there would be no SDK. 

Daniel Sütel For me it does not help to make noise here. I posted in some discussions hoping for some satisfying response by Neeo employees but unfortunately it seems that all non positive  discussions are treated with just saying nothing before creating more harm by stating the truth, that the project never will get to the point which was announced in the beginning.

I personally use Neeo only for  things  a 50€ remote could do. Programming in SDK is not my thing, even setting up the ProntoPro was easier than Neeo. For this amount of money I hoped to get some functionality like Bluetooth or WiFi control over my devices which I don‘t have to program on my own...

Daniel Sütel The mistake many smaller companies make over and over again is that they promise too much to get attention. In the end, however, the company is unable to keep these promises, which leads to customer disappointment. At the very least, NEEO is one of the companies that are definitely learning. That they advertised offensive Bluetooth support all the time but the device still doesn't support Bluetooth until today, NEEO has now probably realized that this is not good for the reputation. So they decided to renounce this statement at Amazon, until this feature is finally available, which is quite a bit more than many other companies do. 

What I would like to see is a clear statement when you can expect something of the basic features like to set the color of a lamp. But unless statements like we work on it, it is more difficult than expected (Bluetooth) and it will be released with the next firmware, you get only very unclear statements when some feature will be added in future.

So you have to wait for the day when it finally works, or you are dealing with the SDK or external solutions so that you can use the device as you might have expected from the announcements from the beginning.

Daniel Sütel though I share at least some of your disappointment, if you want a guaranteed hassle-free customer experience you should not back a kickstarter project but turn to mature and proven solutions. That does not excuse neeo overpromising and still lacking some of the most basic features, but as I wrote earlier, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is ...

Fonzo funny that, I met another backer 6 months ago and he told me that based on the feedback on this forum he decided not to unpack his neeo and wait till it delivered on its promises. I told him that was probably a smart strategy. Since then things have improved and today I’d say it depends on what you exactly expect and how much time you want to spend on it. Because, ironically, the “extremely easy set-up” means you spend ages working around it, or making sense of it.

Daniel Sütel   Jakob Winter Lars Joschko Geert Van Der Linden Yann FREMONT

a picture sometimes says more than a thousand words

because you can see immediately why it is necessary to revise the UI

- The icons are too few than the devices could be identified clearly

- without a line break, one can only guess which device it is

- open another menu especially for the light is mostly unnecessary and only time consuming if you want to turn on one light, the light should be accessible directly if only one light is available or at least place a shortcut here

- What you do not see right away but what's the opposite of the simple setup is that you have to fiddle with recipes forever so that they are somehow reasonably useful.

If you have a device with two outputs screen and TV you have to create two recipes. But if you take over the standard recipe created by NEEO  without further elaboration this is a mess, NEEO switches everything off to turn it on again, which is completely useless. The only difference between the two recipes is the output. Therefore everything would have to stay on and be turned off only when all recipes are finished in which the device is included

Here it would also help if it would be possible in the UI only one recipe to use, instead of the annoying circles then an interim screen in which one can select the output whether screen or TV.

So this way it is solved at least in other applications with meaningful user guidance

Fonzo you indeed have to fiddle a lot with the recipes. In my case primarily because for a long time it was not clear to me what neeo does behind the scenes. Anyway, you can clean up the recipe names, but will have to pick short ones ... Annoyingly, like you, I have not found a way to get different icons for some of my recipes.

I also changed all the default power on / off steps in my recipes and am happy with the result (leaving aside the assumption mode for smart devices). Depending on your setup and wishes you will probably not be able to fully replicate the Logitech way.

But I like the ability to quickly switch between controls (using the active now area) and between inputs (by rerunning an active recipe). I can also easily and quickly control power states without having shortcuts. But again, that depends on setup and preferences.

Geert Van Der Linden still have my Harmony Ultimate besides NEEO , just in case I pull the trigger. But you know what I m still optimistic that NEEO just need a little push or organizational changes to turn in the right direction. 

Fonzo so me as NEEO I would think and work on two things :

A) naming rules for display icons, user can choose between 0 to 8 characters 

B) extend Icons database for recipes, make use of OEM icons / logos 

4 weeks work max on this if you focus and drive the team

Daniel Sütel well, each update brought something important for me, we had the assumption mode for stupid devices (everyone needs that, i have never seen a set top box that was not stupid ...) we had customisable slides (underwhelming at first, but then I found you can hide all default slides and keep adding commands to the shortcut slide so it actually solved a lot) and then the virtual switches (allowing access to recipes from shortcuts). So hopefully we will get more and quicker.

Thing is, some of the customisation requests are so simple I cannot imagine it would take more then a couple of hours to implement (choose an icon for a recipe for example, I’d even be happy with the ones they have already, so no artwork or copyright issues). So why do we still don’t have that? Honestly can’t figure that one out.

Geert Van Der Linden for example when I launch the Xbox recipe watch some Netflix and afterwards I like to switch to normal television, the Xbox stays on until I shut off everything. (It‘s not a bug it‘s a feature because it safes time when I switch back to Xbox)

With Logitech Harmony you can choose if the old source should be switched off or not. So for me it doesn‘t make sense that Neeo is choosing for me (especially when it is the wrong decision in my opinion). The environmental aspect of wasting electricity by letting the Xbox run for hours when it‘s not used bothers me as well as the unnecessary costs...

Look here https://planet.neeo.com/t/q5fljd

the discussion was startet over a year ago. And still neither a fix nor some communication if this will come ever...

Lars Joschko neeo does not have the Logitech option of switching off unused devices. The advantage of that approach is that it is smart and works regardless of which recipe you had running before. The disadvantage is that sometimes you don’t want your remote to turn off those devices. Neeo is more flexible in this sense. You can stop your XBox recipe if you want to turn it off, or leave it on if you plan to switch between the two. That is the way I’ve set things up.

Edit: the lack of flexibility is why I never used that option with my trusted Logitech

Geert Van Der Linden that is true but it is the same as leaving my car parked with running engine for 8h while I’m working because it’s more flexible. It is nonsense! Why not let the customer decide which works for his setup best?

I have added a button to turn off the Xbox in all other recipes as well, but I don’t like this behavior of switching pages to get access to the button. It is no seems less integration. 

From my point of view I cannot see an advantage of a smart remote when I still have to press several buttons for only switching recipes.

Lars Joschko in my opinion it's not like you just said.
when you start your XBox recipe, for example, and play arround, you can start the TV recipe. everything is in Power on state like you said. but now you are able to stop devices which you don't need in the now active section. when you shut down the XBox recipe, all other stuff you are using in TV is still playing and the XBox is off. Dosen't that fit your needs?

Lars Joschko if you want the exact behaviour of the Logitech option to turn off unused devices without extra clicks you won’t get it with NEEO. But as nuro and I describe you can turn off the XBox recipe, which doesn’t require adding shortcuts to all other recipes. To use it you also use the touchscreen much less and more the hardware buttons which I personally prefer.

EDIT: you could also add a power off XBox command to the launch section of your TV (and other) recipes. That would work well for all smart source devices and mimic the Logitech behaviour

nuro sounds good, but where is the now active section. When I switch from Xbox recipe to TV recipe by pressing “home” and “TV” afterwards the TV is turned to the right input and everything works good. But when I press “home” again there is only TV showed as active no Xbox anymore. What do I miss there?

Lars Joschko that is part of the NEEO magic ... it drove me crazy too. What happens is the following: NEEO dictates that you can only have one active recipe per output device. So if your XBox is connected to the same TV, it hides the XBox recipe ... then, when you close the TV recipe, it « remembers » your XBox was also on and turns that off too. This is the assumption mode for smart devices. It cannot be turned off. Which is ... mind boggling, especially as NEEO initially insisted an assumption mode doesn’t fit the NEEO philosophy and instead told its customers not to buy stupid devices.

In my case, I removed ALL steps from the power off sections of ALL my recipes. Then, using your example, when I turned of my TV recipe, the TV stayed on (normal, I removed all steps) but the XBox turned off?!? How smart is that!

Anyway, I found a workaround! Duplicate your display device (I added my projector five times, called it projector Xbox, projector TV, etc). Then, magic happens, you will now see both the Xbox and TV recipe in the active now area! In the power off section of your Xbox recipe you put the power off command of your Xbox. So after switching to the TV, you can easily power off the Xbox by quitting that recipe. Or leave it on, in case you expect to quickly switch back. Your choice.

Geert Van Der Linden we were not promised by neeo:

"You don’t need to be a techie person to setup NEEO. It’s built for everyone and tested by our kids, parents and grandparents!"

If my parents are reading what they have to adjust just so that the device works properly then the device is in the drawer before it ever came to use.

Lars Joschko this is how my home screen looks like, if only I could give my TV recipe a TV icon, and my Spotify recipe a loudspeaker icon ... or the actual Netflix and Spotify icons ...

Notice also how I have a projector recipe active at the same time as my Netflix recipe, which uses the same projector. I have that to show additional controls of the projector (to avoid adding a lot of rarely used shortcuts to all my recipes). Logitech users will recognise I am mimicking the Devices menu)

Fonzo it took me 6 months of fiddling with it (and waiting for some of the crucial firmware updates) before my wife agreed to using NEEO, setting it up would only happen in a galaxy far far away ...

Geert Van Der Linden is synonymous only a tiny difference between 6 months puzzle and tinker and a 3-minute setup ;-). The main thing is that we can be happy in the end and it works

Fonzo yep, pretty happy with my current setup. Patiently waiting for the next upgrade to see what it brings for my setup ...

Geert Van Der Linden Sorry to say, you call it "Magic" I call it a bad design decision aka user experience. It is far away from easy to setup or strait forward integration. For the moment I live with my workaround of having a switch on a slide in every recipe but the point is, that it seems as there will be no really good update at all which solves all the problems.

I´m still waiting that Neeo supports Bluetooth (more than just printing it on the downside of the brain), cause I have to use my TV remote every time I turn my TV to watch from the dining area. Nobody told me that I only get a normal infrared remote as long as I´m not Linus Torvalds and spent hours of my life programming scrips to get all the advertised features.

Last firmware update was when? I´m still hoping that I will get the great experience which the hardware seems to be capable of, but at the moment it doesn´t is as good as it looks/sounds in the web shop.

Lars Joschko I was being ironic when I said NEEO magic ... more to the point, you were not happy with how NEEO handles power states when switching recipes. I tried providing you with several alternatives to solve your problem. Including one that may sound difficult to set up but works very well for me. I also suggested you add a power off Xbox command to the launch section of your TV recipe. Should take less time that posting here and would also meet your expectations as far as I can judge them. No shortcuts or extra clicks needed.

Geert Van Der Linden sorry I never wanted to offend you. You’re workaround sounds really good and I will give it a try during holiday season... I just wanted to make my point clear somehow that maybe the software get some chances. As English is not my native language, I maybe didn’t get the thing with the magic 😉 Your help is really appreciated 👍

Lars Joschko sure, we are all looking forward to the next upgrade. Hope you find the good setup for your recipes and how you switch between them!

Fonzo that looks very cool, you built your own iPhone app? I share your hope the official UI will soon offer (far) more customisation, because the iPhone is a great platform but I prefer to use the remote.

Geert Van Der Linden I did not write a complete app myself but I'm using NEO as an App Designer for years to simply click a remote interface for completely different systems together. Now I have added the NEEO commands, based on your proposed design,  to the remote interface for my tablets and iPhones, the graphics are already there, you just have to assign each graphics the appropriate NEEO command or NEEO recipe send via NEEO brain. So this is depending on how many recipes and devices you use a work of about 1 hour or more. The NEEO brain is controlled from NEO via IP Symcon and NEO Plugin IP-Symcon and IPSymconNEEO .

However, the approach is more suitable for people who have a comprehensive home automation system either way and want to control it via a tablet or smartphone and integrate the devices, that are controlled via the NEEO and the NEEO brian. The big advantage of NEEO are the hardware keys that a tablet does not have. Therefore, this may be a solution to supplement the NEEO app and have a better UI experience but not a substitute for an adaptation of the display on the NEEO remote itself. For this, first of all, the opportunity would have to be created, either to deposit a website as a start page in the NEEO remote display, then you could also simply design web interfaces and display in the NEEO display or the SDK must finally be extended so that just a better adjustment and customization is given, for example, adjusting the icons or font size at the NEEO display.

Fonzo using NEO to replace NEEO, I sense this might become confusing 😉

You are absolutely right, I want the hardware buttons of the NEEO remote. I am also not in a highly automated setup so this might not be for me but it is still very cool!

But I didn’t propose design, full credit for that goes to Jakob Winter

Geert Van Der Linden dont know how 😄

would love to do so...

Daniel Jordi I think you just delete all rooms until you have but one left, at which point you don’t see the welcome home screen with rooms anymore but always see the single room.

In other words, good for people that always had but one room. But I assume nothing has changed in the layout of the room, so you still only get 6 recipes and would have to swipe. I am curious whether that would be an improvement to keeping stuff in separate rooms ... at some point I’ll try it out of curiosity but it’s a bit of work to move devices and recreate custom recipes and virtual switches.

Geert Van Der Linden I only use one room (Living Room), so deleted the empty room (Bedroom) that was on the remote. When I restart the remote it defaults to the "Living Room" screen (with an arrow pointing to the "Welcome Home" screen. So the  "Welcome Home" screen is still there, but you have to navigate back to it.

Jon Iverson same with me..

the only change is, thet pressing the home button dont bring up the welcome screen. now it starts in the only active room.

the useless welcome screen is still here 🙄

Jon Iverson ah, not worth the bother then in my case. Thanks for the accurate description

Jon Iverson went for it anyway and prefer the single room setup, less clicks and cleaner.

Changing names of shortcuts and creative use of the spacers also make a dramatic difference on the shortcut pages. Incredible really that it took so long for such extremely basic things to be available ...

I was thinking that the current firmware should have been the one at launch. We still would have wondered why there was no IR learning, Bluetooth or why the customisation options were so limited, etc. but it would have been an acceptable starting point. Now it is the end point.