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Select remote option

I change a lot between inputs, devices, or just need to go into a menu of some device but i dont want to startup a whole recipe to activate the remote.

The way i solved it now is at the end of the screen on every recipe there are my most used buttons for all my devices. it would be nice to select the remote and also use the physical buttons of the NEEO.

For now I've got multiple slides in multiple recipes with exactly the same buttons I rarely use. 

EDIT: the image contains a setup how to integrate with the UI. Just add a button in the far left corner maybe make it a remote icon or something, but you get the idea, when tapping this the menu opens with all the devices (added or owned, select by choice is the way to go i guess) this way you can switch your NEEO into a native remote without leaving the recipe you're currently in.

little update Patrick  Andy  Raphael 

If you have doubts about the integration you could just make it a customizable option. Go into settings-> remote-> remote select->enable/disable. This way you activate the option or just leave it disabled by default. This way you dont confuse regular users but give a choice to techheads who fiddle a lot with equipment. This way you dont have to keep on adding shortcuts to your recipes.

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  • I understand your need, but I don't understand your last sentence. By "select the remote" you basically been selecting a specific device and getting all commands from this device? So in the sense of " selecting the original remote?

    Reply Like
    • Patrick Yes, my harmony does this, you can select the original remote inside the activity, so the remote (especially the hard buttons) turn into the original remote. now I have to navigate with the controlpad on the touchscreen it is a bit hard to control it like that.

      Reply Like 1
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Wessel Otter is that something you need on a regular base, and if yes, for what reason? The reason I am asking is that I personally think that this is used only rarely once everything has been set up, and also we want to get a feeling of where this would have to be added in the UI itself.

      Reply Like
    • Patrick well the CEC handshake between my LG and Lyngdorf is not the best. I need to go into the lyngdorf menu to disable and enable the HDMI CEC to get it working again, everytime I power off my device it lost its connection. I already emailed Lyngdorf but they blame LG, I will send an email to LG but I'm not expecting any compliance. 

      So I added al the control buttons in every recipe I use the Lyngdorf with (everything because its my receiver). The only steady solution is to add an optical cable but this would ruin the whole HDMI CEC effectiveness.

      For most people this is not really necessary thats why I made an idea voting to see how many need this. 

      Reply Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Wessel Otter Thanks a lot for describing the use case.

      I do understand your need, but for this specific issue, wouldn't it be an option to permanently disable CEC an all devices since your NEEO can replace that now?

      Reply Like
    • Patrick well yes, but I also make use of the HDMI ARC, so thats one thing I cant do without, it means I have to add another cable for audio and I rather not do that. 

      in response of the way I see this implemented; make a seperate screen available via a button; like the left corner of the homescreen or something.
      In the screen you can add all you devices, by pressing it the NEEO turns in to that native remote, use all the hard buttons and display all the commands known for the device. 

      It will be a different section and take almost no space what so ever.

      The way I use it now is that I see one button i forgot to add to the shortcut section, all of a sudden I have 4 more slides with 3 different remotes on it. I have the controlpad for my receiver on one, the next slide is my PVR with controlpad and a few buttons, the next one is my tv with the same layout. add a few inputs and special buttons and there are 8 or 9 slides in total. It is not ergonomic to me, I rarely use the buttons but I have to be able to get to them.

      So I did this with all my recipes, when wathcing tv or movies or netflix. three recipes with 4 extra slides in stead of one button that leads me into remote selection

      Reply Like 1
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Wessel Otter Thanks a lot for outlining your need in such a precise way. We'll discuss your ideas, but I can not give you a timeline on when we'll be able to realize something like this.

      Reply Like
    • Patrick Not often. But If there is no way to send a single command the only way is to add every button who is maybe onetime necessary add to every recipe. and that makes no sence. imo is this manko one of the biggest minus from NEEO.

      Reply Like 1
    • Andreas Coradi its not something that you HAVE to activate. You could just make it an option. Just go into settings and enable native remote. Just don't set it by default but make it an expert mode for the more technical advanced user. 

       

      This way you dont confuse regular users and give the option to the user itself. Its just better to expand the user interface with more options to personalize and customize. But make it an option to enable.

      Reply Like 2
    • Wessel Otter I think i understand. I realy like this Idee. Imo there is no reason why not to implement. 

      Reply Like
    • Andreas Coradi the big issue is the interferrance with the 'insanely simple setup' that is claimed. With all the different remotes to choose from it takes the 'simple' out of the equation. NEEO needs to replace all those remotes on your coffee table, and not add them.. the thing is not all the devices are smart so there are some situation it just comes in handy to have the option if you need it.

      Reply Like 2
    • Wessel Otter Agree, we should really up-vote the "expert mode" idea, were you could regroup more functions than the native remote one alone, but were you could also decide which devices to power on of off between recipes etc.

      Reply Like
    • Wessel Otter Have you tried to add the disable and enable HDMI CEC commands (or a macro since you have to enter a menu) to your launch recipe.  You should easily be able to automate that process.

      Reply Like
    • Reply Like
    • Dave H 

      Okay here is the deal; my TV and receiver don't like each other. They wont accept HDMI ARC, only if you pair them again after you pwer down the TV/Receiver. When asked they will shake hands again.

      stubborn little basterds... But hey, NEEO is programmable to do my dirty work.

      The procedure to make them speak to each other again is quite a list; I need to go inside the AV receiver menu to disable/enable the HDMI CEC, the  recipe is long and anoying so I've made a recipe:

      Menu
      wait
      Right
      wait
      Right
      wait
      Enter
      wait
      Right
      wait
      Right
      wait
      Right
      wait
      Right
      wait
      Right
      wait
      Enter
      wait
      Enter
      wait
      Left
      wait
      Enter
      wait
      Enter
      wait
      Right
      wait
      Enter
      wait
      Menu
      wait
      Menu
      wait
      Menu

      so.. ehh, yeah thats a long list but you understand how anoying it is to manually do this every time. I made this recipe before and it worked like a charm. Now it stopped working, I re-added it (yes, manually adding all the steps again!)

      the recipe relies on the delays (wait) otherwise it scrolls way to fast and NEEO loses lyngdorf in the process and ends up somewhere else. As you can see it's scrolling way to fast through the menu and the recipe is strolling along like nothing happend.

      Reply Like 1
    • Wessel Otter That is quite the macro.  Impressive.  I've heard there have been issues with delays and it sounds like they have found the solution.  Hopefully it will get that up and running again for you. You said you made a recipe.  So this is a standalone recipe or steps you added to the launch recipe?

      Reply Like
    • Dave H this was a stand alone recipe but it was to sketchy. If one action misfired the whole recipe didnt work and just continued to mess up settings without the option to cancel. So was this a good workarround? No.. I ditched the hdmi cec and just went with a optical cable. 

      The way companies use HDMI CEC and make it a version of their own doesn't work. The handshakes between various other versions are not stable. 

      They just made an universal connection into something that only wotks if you buy their product. 

       

      • Samsung – AnyNet+
      • Sharp – Aquos Link
      • Sony – BRAVIA Link en BRAVIA Sync
      • Toshiba – CE-Link en Regza Link
      • LG – SimpLink
      • Panasonic – HDAVI Control, EZ-Sync en VIERA Link
      • Phillips – EasyLink

      As long as they do this there it just doesn't work as intended

      Reply Like 1
    • Wessel Otter Got it.  Thanks for the explanation.

      Reply Like
  • Patrick What also would be a big help is :

    • when the shortcut touchbutton 'Menu' for TV is pressed withing a receipe the hard cursor buttons or navigation will be assigned to that specific remote until exit menu.
    • When the shortcut touchbutton 'Menu' is pressed for IPTV inside the same recipe the navigation will be assigned to IPTV until exit menu.
    • When the shortcut touchbutton 'Menu' is pressed for AV Receiver still inside the same recipe the navigation will be vor the receiver until exit.

    this way it saved you 3 navigation/control pads on the shortcut screen, you only need to add 3 menu buttons. This really solves most of my troubles and frustrating navigation through touchcursors.

    Reply Like 3
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Wessel Otter I do understand the idea, at least I think so 😉 You have to keep in mind that NEEO is not only made for "gadget-guys", so this idea would need a lot of work on the UI side to actually make sure the user always knows what he is actually controlling to not confuse him.

      As I said before, we get your need. We'll discuss this as soon as possible.

      Reply Like
    • Patrick take the time, there must be more important things to do ;) I just want to make the interface easier and more logical! thanks

      Reply Like 1
    • Patrick Thank you to look into it. I think this could work if you do not expect the user knowing which device involved. Let me further develop the idea:

      • We tech guys know that for device A (TV) you need remote X and for device B (STB) you need remote Y. Thus if you make a universal remote Z (NEEO) for a tech guy, you make a remote regrouping remote X and remote Y into the universal remote Z, letting you to control A and B. We do the thinking, the remote executes.

       

      • However, for non-tech people (like my wife, my father, etc), this approach doesn't work. They want to watch the TV (for instance from your STB). It doesn't matter how and which device they need to use, they don't bother en mostly don't know. 5 minutes later they want to watch netflix (App in your smart TV). Up is still Up, although it is a totally different device they want to control. The thinking must happen in the remote (or a controller, brain, server, whatever you want to call it), ideally this remote knows in which device you are navigating and -logically- what the hard and soft buttons would have to control. That's a thinking remote, and for sure this isn't possible with IR, at least not in a reliable way.

      My idea of the ideal remote is that the operator doesn't have to think anymore which devices are involved. I don't know how far NEEO is in this mindset and my contribution is limited to pure speculations right now, however a remote just arrived at my doorstep today and I will try to contribute to the NEEO community as much as I can. My first steps will be familiarizing with the device, then I will look into Homekit and what TCP/IP control is allowed in NEEO at the moment for trying some Loxone and Nvidia Shield TV integration.

      Reply Like 1
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Pierre-Alexandre I think we have a very similar idea of the understanding of different users. We are looking forward to your feedback after your first experience with NEEO.

      In general, we very much going in the direction you describe, it should just work without the user having to think. That is the reason why we hide away a lot of stuff and why we don't represent devices but rather recipes on the home screen. As a human being, I don't want to think about which devices I want to control or about which technology to use, I think about what I want to do, just as you described "I want to watch Netflix".

      Concerning IR, while I do somehow agree, we are actually still surprised on what is possible with IR and on how important it still is, even with new devices.

      To get started with our SDK, have a look here .

      Reply Like 1
    • Patrick Hi, After all the reviews and first experiences I've read on the internet I had low expectations to say the very least. However, I'm really blown away by NEEO. Not only is the building quality similar to High End brands and way ahead of almost everything you can have from mainstream brands like Sony, LG or Samsung. The experience is exactly what I would expect for non-geeks. The setup is very neat and intuitive and I assume this will be ideal for most . It would be nice to have a "pro" or "advanced" app or settings to have more freedom, although I think a lot will be possible with your SDK. 

      I already wrote my first thoughts on several forums where I'm active and I will write more here in the coming days once I'm more familiar with the SDK.

      NEEO, great job! 

       

      PS: the black cat version is really awesome ;-)

      Reply Like 1
    • Wessel Otter You know me from the other forum were we discussed about this idea and the arrows. :-)

      Reply Like
    • Pierre-Alexandre nice! I put the idea up for discussion 

      Reply Like 1
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • 1
      • Reported - view

      Pierre-Alexandre We are very happy to hear that NEEO is convincing you 👍

      I assume that many of the "pro features" you are missing are already being worked on or they are at least in our minds. There are much more very cool things to come.

      Just out of personal interest, in which other forums are you active? 😉

      Reply Like 1
    • Patrick I've started slowly by posting my first experience on htforum.nl and on homecinema-fr.com , with a small referral in tweakers.net . In the next days and once the complexity of my setup increases I will join the NEEO discussion in PLEX.tv and some other forums. 😉

      Reply Like
      • Patrick@NEEO
      • Community Manager
      • Patrick
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Pierre-Alexandre Thanks, didn't know these forums.

      Reply Like
    • Patrick Maybe thats where you will find the majority of NEEO users in The Netherlands..

      Reply Like 1
  • Pierre-Alexandre have you already startet with testing Loxone integration?

    Reply Like
    • Christian Humer No I still did not find time to do so, I need to reinstall a VM of windows first as loxone is not available on Mac OS. I sincerely hope to have a look at it in February.

      Reply Like
    • Christian Humer Hi, in the end I just used OpenHab on a Raspberry Pi to bridge NEEO and Loxone. While it is a workaround, I do not have the skills nor the time to combine NEEO and Loxone directly. At least, I was not able to find a solution to have Loxone reacting to forwarded commands of NEEO.

      Reply Like
  • I really like this idea!

    If I add a shortcut to show the controls of my AVR to a recipe, the remote will show the touchpad on the touchscreen. In this moment I want to navigate my AVR menues (to fine tune the sound, etc.)

    I would be nice to map the hardbuttons to the softbuttons, if (and only) a control-shortcut is displayed. Maybe a checkbox under the softbuttons to enable mapping and a setting on the shortcut for the default value.

    If someone adds a control shortcut, he knows what he is doing.
    Using softbuttons on the display which have "hard-counterparts" on the remote just feels wrong...

    Reply Like 2
  • Yes - a possible remaping of the hardbuttons would be very nice! I don't need channel +/-, when the blu-ray player is running. I don't even ever need them, because i don't watch tv since a few years...
    After two days of using the NEEO, i'm missing the pause hardkey of my harmony, and the possibility, to switch between DTS:X, Dolby Atmos, Auro-3D, Upmixers etc. on my Marantz AVR.
    In 99.9% of the time, i'm the only "master of the remote", and i would like to be that also in MY custom remote setup. If this is never going to work with the NEEO, so i'm already regretting my purchase...

    Buildquality is fabulous, but what's the use, when it could not get near the funtionality, of the Harmony?

    Reply Like 1
    • Dominic Peter the remapping of unused buttons is a different topic but the situation you discribe is in the right ballpark. When watching movie or listening to music the ability to change audio or poking around in the menu would be a lot easier with hard buttons and native remote select

      Reply Like
    • Right now, i'm thinking about selling my Black Cat. The Speed Updates are coming, is a shame.
      I'm still waiting for my one Amp to be added, and all the minor or mayor shortcomings are too much for me.

      Reply Like 1
  • slight update in the openingpost, I just can't seem to get around this, its such a usefull option to have which is really easy to implement and takes almost no space at all. let me hear your thoughts..

    EDIT: made a change with the button to make it more clear

    Jens Mahnke Peter Jaime Lira Christoph Romer Jérôme Matter Markus Zehnder Ianic Brisson Thomas Hebendanz Sebastian Marks Girts Burnauskis Pink Camera Henrik Sorling Antoine Urs Diergardt Alex Eigenmann Gavin Lawrie Gauvain DUTHEIL Reto Scheiben Pierre-Alexandre

    Reply Like
  • It is a nice idea Wessel! 👍
    To me what you try to achieve is still a workaround for a limit of the NEEO system: recipe = device. I appreciate the approach of the recipe, but I think there are some limits to the implementation now

    When NEEO will make a recipe a real recipe consisting of multiple devices, you will be able to put all the buttons you need and control all the devices into your recipe, without having to switch between recipes like it is the case now. 

    What you propose to do here is -to me- a step back to the universal remotes of 20-30 years ago:

     

    you select the device to control, and then give the command. That's practical, but that's not a thinking remote to me and you could achieve it with a 25euro costing universal remote of the praxis. 🙂


    It is still a brain teaser how to properly tackle the thinking remote part, but then it is not really my job neither 😉 In the end I changed a lot of equipment last year in order to have it smartly integrating with each other, but I'm that far integrated now that all my appliances almost work altogether on HDMI CEC alone, without having to use the NEEO. 😂

    Reply Like 1
    • Pierre-Alexandre I understand where you are comming from and in some way you are right. This is an old approach for a device that claims to be smart, however not all the appliaces are smart yet so you have to have the oppertunity to control the devices like that. 

      In my opinion it must be an option you can activate or leave just the way you like. If you enable the native remote selection; the remote icon will pop up somewhere on the screen (in my example the left upper corner). If you tap that it will give you manual control over the remotes. 

      it just makes a lot of sense since the option to control every remote is already there. It just takes a lot of time to set up every page on every recipe with every device with the buttons you could possibly need.  I just keep adding and adding and adding buttons I rarely use, to a point that there are 7 slides per recipe which keeps on growing. 

      I just want to have a nice clean screen layout with the most frequently used buttons. for the buttons I rarely use I suddenly need to add them and then they just stay there, making a mess of the layout

      Reply Like
  • I would absolutely love this feature! Shortcuts are useful, but way too much work to set up and keep in sync with > 10 recipes.
    Right now NEEO is just one more remote on my couch table :-(

    Reply Like
    • Markus Zehnder My other remotes are also still within reach. if I need to set up my audio differently I'm not going to fool arround on a touchpad. I just want hard buttons that give me feedback.

      clicking once or twice on a touchscreen is not really a problem but when scrolling through menu's in receivers etc. its just easier if you could swap between controls on the NEEO remote

      Reply Like
  • Would be a nice feature. My first programmable remote from JVC (25 years ago) had the this option to. 

    Reply Like 1
  • Full support for the « add devices » suggestion. I realise I fall in the « tech guy » category and am also a happy harmony user but:

    1) until all devices become really smart and automation can be implemented more reliably we are going to need specific commands once in a while to correct things (such as a failed HDMI handshake, or errors with « stupid » devices.) or change a rarely used setting.

    2) currently my NEEO is completely useless, it’s current implementation of recipes making it so limited I can not use it for a single use case. I have a perfectly functioning harmony and can appreciate NEEO would not offer all the functionality from the get go but it is difficult not to be disappointed.

    3) though I see the difficulty of building a product for all users in all use cases, right now it seems you’ve only got the non-tech customers and straightforward use cases covered, a single device is rarely a single recipe. That is understandable but I bet a lot of your initial customers are not of that variety.

    4) a major point of such a device is to make “complicated” setups “transparent” to non-tech users. We all appreciate it if the configuration phase be as simple as possible but this is highly dependant from the devices we own and how we use them, in other words outside of NEEOs control. Giving the tech guys control makes for happy non-tech NEEO users.

    5) I have a projector for all video and DAC for all audio, meaning all my sources are connected to both! Currently NEEO does not support this type of cable salad ...

    6) generic devices, we all have them, HDMI switches, rebranded set-top boxes, etc. Without IR learning these cannot be controlled

    7) my harmony can handle a device that only offers next/previous input by remembering the current position and calculating the number of positions it needs to switch. This is not ideal but surprisingly robust. When it does fail the device suggestion of the OP is handy, though the existing NEEO shortcuts could cover this also. Of course today - even if the cable salad got sorted - I would have to use these shortcuts EVERY time.

    Conclusion: I’ll still be using my harmony for a long time ... suppose I was hoping NEEO would do everything my harmony can with a beautiful and minimalistic interface, adding Zwave to the mix and providing even more reliable IR performance.

    Reply Like 4
    • Geert Van Der Linden thanks for elaborating and supporting the idea with good arguments! Youre hitting the nail on the head 

      Reply Like 1
  • I to would love to have direct access to all buttons of a specific device. Currently I have to add a command specific shortcut before actually using it.

    Reply Like
    • Niels de Klerk thanks Niels! That means a lot. You have any more ideas on this?

      Reply Like
    • Wessel Otter add a new room named devices or something and add the same devices there as well.

      Another option is to add a shortcut and just use the test command of a button if you need one specific button press. Then cancel the add shortcut when you’re done.

      Reply Like
    • Niels de Klerk the first one maybe a good idea, in the homescreen. The second one is a bit more makeshift that doesnt have the NEEO finesse to it I guess.

      The main thing is a lot of people need some more personalisation/control over their situations. I don't see a lot of updates regarding ideas where as a lot are being worked on or planned.

      Reply Like
    • Wessel Otter I think, the widget part of the shortcut section, shows witch way neeo will go with the customisation approach. Wit htese widgets, you are able to build your own screens. And then only a Button change or Edit page is needed.

      like you can do on Android with the widgets on the homescreen. Maybe even a bit more flexible than that, but we will see.

      Reply Like
    • Niels de Klerk That is exactly what I'd like to have as well. Right now NEEO doesn't live up to its promise of replacing remotes, as I still have to keep the remotes handy for when I have to dive into settings or use some functionality that I didn't predict I'd need and thus don't have a shortcut for. Even worse, when there's no command to do exactly what I need to do I'd have to use the directional pad to navigate the menu, so having a "devices" room as you described is more or less a necessity.

      For me, the promo image proudly displayed on NEEO's landing page is a dream, not a reality.
       

      Reply Like 1
    • Niels de Klerk adding a new room could work to avoid a new element of the UI. I suppose it would also avoid confusion on the part of less demanding users as this would imply creating this new room on purpose. Tested this quickly with one device and it maps to the hard buttons on the remote, so far so good.

      However, it would create an additional click, go back to home screen, select room devices, choose device. Workable, but the OPs solution is nicer still.

      More importantly, after you've added the device, you also still need to add a recipe with one step (show controls - the default recipe is useless for this and without this step it doesn't work) and then add a bunch of shortcuts for all the commands you expect to use, which is likely all of them, even if you use some of them very rarely. And you cannot modify the page(s) with controls NEEO created automatically, which might not actually show the controls you need ...

      So, this approach is definitely much better than having to add all controls for all devices to all recipes but NEEO could make life a lot easier by 1) having dedicated access to our devices, as proposed by OP 2) automatically adding all controls 3) then giving us full control on which controls show up on which page

      Giving us full control is a more general request from my side, in many cases the default screens / pages NEEO proposes will be just fine, but let us tweak them as we please (possibly by unlocking an advanced user mode first)  

      Reply Like
    • Niels de Klerk 

      more weirdness here, I created a clean devices room, added all devices and went through the cable salad routines. Next I delete all steps from the powered off parts of all the default recipes and keep only the show controls step of that single device.

      Now, if I don’t have the send power on command to that single device AND it is smart device it does not show up in the active now area. Oddly stupid devices do not request I send a power toggle on command.

      It gets weirder ... when activating my three source devices (or projector) in sequence there is only ever one recipe in the active now area, my HDMI switch and DAC on the other hand will show up separately in the active now area.

      it gets even weirder ... when I leave a recipe it powers down another device (e.g. show launch BD player controls recipe + launch set-top box controls recipe + leave set-top box recipe = power down BD player !!!) whilst I don’t have a single power down command anywhere in any recipe?!?

      I don’t know how much better your beta versions are, but the bugs in the public version are frustrating. The remote looks great and you can easily imagine how good it could work but today’s reality is many bugs and not being able to fix them ... 

      Reply Like
  • whitout having read everything, I also need this from time to time. I don't wanna add all the Buttons just in case I would need it, but sometimes I which I could access all the Commands from a Device (which on my Logitech Harmony is possible)

    Reply Like
    • Sebastian Plattner 

      1) create new room

      2) add all devices again

      3) remove all steps except show controls

      4) hide sheets and add all shortcuts you expect to use for that device

      Reply Like
    • Geert Van Der Linden thats just a workaround...  it would probably work, but not really a nice Solution. Why should I add the Device again.. when its already there. And a lot of manual Step for each Device..

      Reply Like
    • Sebastian Plattner it most surely works. I also have a Logitech so wanted to reproduce this setup and i think it is a nice solution. It shouldn’t take much time to configure either.

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