Telus Optik Cisco ISB7105 ISB7150
Helloooo Neeo! How's everybody doing?! Well rested I hope. ;)
First off, congratulations on the major milestone of finally shipping! I have been following since the beginning and I have to say the causes of delay were exactly the types of things that made me fall in love with the product in the first place. Mainly, commitment to build quality and open architecture. Would I have liked to get my Neeo a long time ago? Yes. But I'd also like a pony and a little red wagon. Now at least I have one out of three.
So, I've updated to firmware 0.45, and added my TV, set top box and AVR.
My (Telus Optik) set top box (Cisco ISB7105) doesn't turn on when I run the recipe. Then, if I power off the recipe, the TV and AVR turn off, and the set top box turns on. If I run the recipe a second time, the set top box remains on. I'm guessing this might be related to stupid devices and toggling, but I'm not really sure what the correct solution is. Is this something I have to do a work around for, or can you update the ISB7105?
Thanks!
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Your name sounds dutch.. you already have a neeo?
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Wessel Otter My parents immigrated to Canada before I was born, and decades ahead of Neeo's shipping date. Apparently that was incredibly good foresight on their part. :)
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Edward Zwart indeed.. I blame my parents for staying here;)
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Edward Zwart Thanks a lot for the good feedback, the whole team appreciates that 👍
I will have the device driver team check on the command set for this device. While it sounds a bit like being related to stupid devices, that still is not how it should behave.
Ar you using the automatically created recipes, did you edit any of these? Especially concerning the power commands or adding a power-toggle?
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Patrick I am using the automatically created recipe, and have not yet played with editing the commands, although I have looked at them. I thought I'd come ask for the right approach first.
I also have to set up my second brain which will include the non-wireless set top box/DVR: Cisco ISB7150.
Unfortunately these days I can only spend a few minutes here and there, so my progress is a bit slow. Last night I was trying a few of the commands on the 7105 and found some others that appeared not to be working. I'll make a list and post it here ASAP.
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TL;DR
Please add "skip back" command to the 7105 ("Previous" on the 7150). I need to solve IR reception on the 7105 ... another day.------
More info...
I've updated the title of this thread to reflect both Cisco devices: the DVR (wired) ISB7150 and the set top box (wireless) ISB7105. There is another post ( https://planet.neeo.com/t/18fgxb/yamaha-rx-v1800-cisco-isb7150-dvr ) that deals with the 7150, but I thought it made sense to combine them since I have both, and can offer a bit of a comparison/contrast. It's actually handy that I have one of each on a different brain. I look forward to multiple brains working together better in the future, but in the meantime, these two Cisco products are segregated nicely in my setup.
One minor difference between the two devices: the 7150 is labelled as "IPTV" and the 7105 as "Cable". These were both provided to me by my provider (Telus Optik). From reading Optik's support in the past, I am aware that different subscribers have different remotes. For the record, mine is the one on the left in the attached image (I think there's a third one too).
In my living room setup (7105) I have some very odd sporadic results. First, some buttons only appear to work the 2nd time I try them. I should point out, I'm testing commands but editing a recipe and adding a command and hitting test. It's a bit cumbersome, but it works. I also noticed that Cursor Down (or other directions) worked the first time, but Cursor Enter only after a couple tries, but that was sporadic. Sometimes it didn't work at all.
Command set differences. No Power On/Off for the 7150 (only Power Toggle). The 7105 does have Power On/Off (and Toggle) but they do not work well. Power On seems not to work at all, and Power Off seems to do what Power Toggle does. Also, with Power Off, I would see a zero on screen (as though I had hit the Digit 0 button) just before the power actually goes off.
Playback... On the 7105 I noticed that no buttons work during playback. I could (clumsily) get a recording to start playing using the cursor commands, but once it was playing, I couldn't pause it, or skip, etc. Even Power Off stopped working altogether.
The buttons on the 7150, however, worked fine during playback (on the other brain).
So, it occurred to me to try adding the 7150 to my living room brain and try its commands on the 7105 (leveraging the brains', ahem, stupidity for just a moment). ;) Anyway, I had similar sporadic results. But the buttons did work sometimes during playback.
Then it occurred to me that maybe it was my own stupidity that was the problem. Maybe the 7105 is just having trouble receiving my living room brain's IR signal. I mean, they already were in direct line of sight. The 7105 was on a shelf under the TV about 12" above the floor, and the brain was on a side table, about 10' away (6' forward, 8' to one side). But I arranged them even more directly pointed at each other. Lo and behold, I did see an improvement in the number of commands that worked. (btw "not working" = "nothing happens"). So then I plugged in the repeater, and positioned it 6" in front of the 7105, and boom, all commands started working.
Nice. At least we know its not the driver. However, I will want to figure out how to make the brain work from 10' away at some point! That's for another day... I would like to point out that the 7105 doesn't have a "skip back" command ("Previous" on the 7150) but should. Can that be added? Looking at the command sets for these two devices, I see some differences (eg, My Recordings vs Menu Dvr). Not sure how much effort you want to "clean up" issues like that... I can't imagine that's very high priority right now. It certainly isn't for me. It might be useful to let us alias commands at some point.
I did do some of the later steps in my long debug session after I started writing this. I considered shortening the post, but I thought it might be useful for some reader at some point in the future...
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Edward Zwart
Many thanks for your feedback!
Your device is a "stupid" (Power toggle only) device by default. Now there it exists a possibility to activate "Power on numeric key" option within your device. I saw this on the web a couple of times. That's why we created workarounds to smarten the device up. Right now I was not able to find anything about this again. I think in the we may have to delete the workaround and mark it as a stupid device. I'll google a bit more to find the instructions to activate this hidden feature. You could do the same. Maybe you are more lucky.
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Andy Will do, thanks.
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Andy Adding the "skip back" key is independent of stupidity and powering on or off, right? Can that be added? (I actually use the skip keys a lot, and it would be something I'd like to use in a custom recipe.)
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Edward Zwart
This button is already present. It's called PREVIOUS. Thanks!
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Andy Correct, on the 7150, but it doesn't exist on the 7105.
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Edward Zwart
Hi again,
This should be fixed! The new data will appear around 1PM CET. Please update your device. Thanks!
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Andy Super, thank you again! I'm looking forward to finding some time this weekend to play with my NEEO.
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Andy
The PREVIOUS command is now present and "works".
Side note about "works" ... The truest test of "works" for any device is that it is actually used and solves a problem. I'm truly sad to say that neither is the case yet for me. Not even close. I'm not giving up, but it is worth recording here that I have spent something like 5 or 6 hours (maybe more, I'm not keeping track) with my new (and admittedly very sexy-looking) NEEO over the last few weeks, and not one second of it has been enjoyable. I haven't even used the remote once. It has all been spent in the app (and on this site). Over those weeks, I have managed to get a few hours of TV time in, during which time my old remotes continue to function admirably. (They, however, don't come with an open API, and are definitely not sexy, which is the reason I still have hope...) Another reason for hope, I guess, is that some day I may replace my unsupported devices (I refuse to call them stupid again), at which point I will likely see the NEEO's value increase. Well, that plus all the incremental improvements I'm sure are on the way from the NEEO team! I still believe guys, but we have a long journey to make this thing worth the $600 I paid for a 2-pack. On the support end, you're doing fantastic, so thank you for that. Keep it up!
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Oops, didn't mean to tag you Andy, that's not directed at you personally!
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Edward Zwart Which problem did you try to solve with the "Previous" command?
For the stupid devices, if you have not done so yet, can you check if you find any other commands which do turn on your devices other than the power commands? If we find some we could try again to "unstupify" these.
Thanks a lot for your help!
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Patrick Previous means "skip back" (ie, approx 6 seconds on this device). It just wasn't present before on the 7105, but it is now and does what I expect.
Re unstupification, I'll move to another thread...
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Edward Zwart Thanks for the feedback 👍
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TL;DR
- Need power toggle screen for 7105 added
- Need "now active" to appear for edited device recipes
Couple issues:
- The initial power on for this device's recipe continues to fail
- There is no power toggle page in the "active recipe" view (ie, where the shortcuts, favorites and controls are, what is this area called?)
So I tried the following: I changed POWER ON to POWER TOGGLE in the "Launched" section, because for me *most* times the cable box is already off. I may as well assume that it needs to be toggled, and if I'm wrong, then correct it (except I can't until we get that power toggle in). However, this edit comes with an unexpected side effect. The "now active" bar on the home screen no longer appears. So, if I navigate away from the controls area (ie, click the left arrow, for example, to go to the home screen so I can get to the main app settings -- too many clicks!) ... anyway, having done that, and with no "now active" bar, the only way I can get back to the recipe controls is to re-run the recipe. ... which toggles the cable box.
I don't understand why the "now active" for this device recipe doesn't appear if I edit POWER ON to POWER TOGGLE. Device recipes are already divided into "Launched" and "Powered off". The recipe knows which is which, and shouldn't care what the internal steps are.
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Edward Zwart I will have the device driver team check these command sets again.
We do only show the screen with the power toggle for devices which are marked stupid in our database, not based on the command you select in your recipe. You can, however, add this command to the shortcuts so you have this available quickly.
When you remove the Power ON command from a recipe then NEEO assumes a wrong state for the device itself, leading to the problem you have that this is then no longer shown in the "now active" section.
I think the best thing to get your issues solved would be to fix the ON command instead of making it a stupid device.
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Edward Zwart I just had a chance to check with the device driver team, apparently, there once was a setting on that device which would allow discrete power commands, but this would need to be set up by you. I am still searching for the according to manual.
In the meantime, could you check if any commands other then the power commands to turn on your device?
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Patrick Ah right of course, adding the shortcut is a good work around. And agreed that making ON work is preferred to hacking the recipe with TOGGLE.
It would be great if there is a way to default the controls to the shortcuts screen so I see it first! That's maybe too much to ask atm, but if it's there, let me know!
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Patrick I'm pretty sure no other existing commands powered the device on, but I will do a complete check next week when I'm back home. Thanks
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Edward Zwart Thanks for checking again. Unfortunately, we have not yet been able to find that manual again, even though we did google for a while. It was something like "Make Telus Optik Power on with digit command".
